Crypto Critics' Corner

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Episode 157 – Donald Trump, Justin Sun, and the grifts we missed

Donald Trump, Justin Sun, and the grifts we missed – Crypto Critics' Corner

Bennett Tomlin and Cas Piancey discuss Donald Trump's new project, World Liberty Financial, as well as Justin Sun's shenanigans, the MakerDAO rebrand, and more. This video was recorded on October 26th, 2024.

Cas Piancey and Bennett Tomlin discuss Donald Trump’s new project, World Liberty Financial, as well as Justin Sun’s shenanigans, the MakerDAO rebrand, and more.

This podcast was recorded on October 26th, 2024.

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English Transcript:

00:00:05:08 - 00:00:06:11
Cas Piancey
Welcome back everyone.

00:00:06:11 - 00:00:13:01
Cas Piancey
I am Cas Piancey, and I'm joined, as usual, by my partner in crime, Mr. Bennett Tomlin. How are you today?

00:00:13:01 - 00:00:14:09
Bennett Tomlin
I'm doing well. How are you, Cas?

00:00:14:09 - 00:00:19:21
Cas Piancey
I'm doing good. I'm completely out of touch with the,

00:00:19:21 - 00:00:28:16
Cas Piancey
goings ons of crypto currency fraud or scams or, I guess just the industry in general.

00:00:28:16 - 00:00:32:00
Bennett Tomlin
You've had more important things going on in the last couple of weeks.

00:00:32:00 - 00:00:35:03
Cas Piancey
I've been traveling with my with my wife.

00:00:35:03 - 00:00:37:15
Cas Piancey
We were in Japan. I know it's

00:00:37:15 - 00:00:41:02
Cas Piancey
I know it's been going around a lot, but I keep telling people they should just go there.

00:00:41:02 - 00:00:48:07
Cas Piancey
So if you can go to Japan, just go to Japan. That's my my recommendation after a long trip away.

00:00:48:07 - 00:00:49:23
Cas Piancey
And I feel like I'm,

00:00:49:23 - 00:01:00:12
Cas Piancey
part of the rest of the world because I, I just haven't followed a single crypto story this whole entire time, which seems like that's a normal thing for most people.

00:01:00:12 - 00:01:16:00
Cas Piancey
But considering that we have a podcast about this, and I work for a news outlet that pretty much exclusively covers cryptocurrency, I feel like I should probably get in touch with what's going on here.

00:01:16:00 - 00:01:17:19
Cas Piancey
And you could help me out with that. Maybe.

00:01:18:01 - 00:01:50:04
Bennett Tomlin
Sure. Why not? Let's start with my least favorite news from the last several weeks. Donald Trump's newest cryptocurrency, the financial fraudster and rapist, has found an audience well suited to his interest in cryptocurrencies and has endorsed a new project called World Liberty Financial. World Liberty Financial is a fork of Dough Finance, a recently hacked wrapper around the AAVE lending protocol.

00:01:50:06 - 00:02:21:20
Bennett Tomlin
This protocol world Liberty Financial, that is all it seems like it's going to do, is serve as a wrapper around some of the lending and borrowing functions of AAVE with maybe a like crypto collateralized stablecoin thrown in, but like, that's I'm just sharing these details. Not because anyone's actually going to use these protocol, but because it's important to emphasize how pointless this protocol is, so that when we get into the rest of the grittiness around it, that will kind of make sense.

00:02:21:22 - 00:02:26:15
Bennett Tomlin
So the griftiness around it. Let's start with the team.

00:02:26:15 - 00:02:40:04
Cas Piancey
I'm just sorry. I just want to say that I've, like. Again, I'm not super familiar with this stuff. So when I look up World Liberty Financial on, like, coin market cap, is it doing really bad or am I looking at the wrong one?

00:02:40:04 - 00:02:44:04
Bennett Tomlin
is doing really bad, and we'll get to just how bad in a moment.

00:02:44:04 - 00:02:47:14
Bennett Tomlin
Let's start with the team. So this was founded by,

00:02:47:14 - 00:03:03:13
Bennett Tomlin
Chase Herro and Zachary Folkman of Subify fame. For those who don't know Subify was the Patreon alternative that Logan Paul used, it promised that unlike Patreon, your account on Subify would stand the test of time.

00:03:03:14 - 00:03:07:12
Bennett Tomlin
And then the business quietly failed and they never announced it or mentioned it.

00:03:07:12 - 00:03:36:22
Bennett Tomlin
So that one didn't stand the test of time. But now they're cryptocurrency entrepreneurs and they have partnered up with some of the Witkoffs. Steve Witkoff, Alex Witkoff, and Zach Witkoff, property developers and friends of the Trump family, to develop this protocol. And they are aided in their efforts by Donald Trump, the chief crypto advocate, and Donald Trump Jr, Eric Trump and Barron Trump, who are like Web3 advocates or some made up title.

00:03:37:00 - 00:03:55:09
Bennett Tomlin
And the reason I'm emphasizing that these are made up titles is because the gold paper, this doesn't have a white paper. Of course, white paper is for toileting, gold paper is for Trump or something. I don't really get it, but there's a gold paper and the gold papers, like the titles we give these folks, are illustrative.

00:03:55:09 - 00:04:02:09
Bennett Tomlin
Donald Trump is not an employee, director, officer, etc., etc. all the things he can't be.

00:04:02:09 - 00:04:03:04
Bennett Tomlin
He's not,

00:04:03:04 - 00:04:08:06
Bennett Tomlin
because Donald Trump is doing what Donald Trump does best and selling his name,

00:04:08:06 - 00:04:15:14
Cas Piancey
But everything I'm reading right now is saying exactly what you're expressing. Where it's like. Well, he's not really associated with it, so.

00:04:15:14 - 00:04:37:00
Bennett Tomlin
So he isn't he isn't because he does get 75% of the revenue. And that feels pretty important, right? Like it's hard to say I'm not associated with this thing that I get 75% of the revenue from, you know, I'm not associated with this thing I endorsed and get 75% of the revenue from and, well, that's only part of it.

00:04:37:00 - 00:04:53:10
Bennett Tomlin
Initially, when CoinDesk reported this story, they talked about how, like only a small portion of the tokens were going to be put aside for the public sale, like 20, 25% or something like that, but the rest held back. And then they came on this Twitter spaces. And I'll drop the audio in this episode here somewhere.

00:04:53:10 - 00:05:20:13
Speaker 1
Approximately 63% of the tokens are going to be sold to the public. There have been no pre-sales. There have been no VC early buy ins with discounted allocation, despite any sort of speculation out there. The first time that this will sell will be when we sell a 63% 63%, all selling to the public. 17% have been set aside for user rewards, and only 20% has been reserved for the team compensation.

00:05:20:13 - 00:05:22:23
Speaker 1
That includes team advisors and.

00:05:22:23 - 00:05:24:19
Bennett Tomlin
And they're like, that is FUD.

00:05:24:19 - 00:05:43:16
Bennett Tomlin
We are selling 63% of this token to the public. Absolutely going to happen. You all shouldn't listen to the media who lie and say other things. A couple days later, 63 was cut to 35 and then 35 was cut to 25.

00:05:43:16 - 00:05:47:03
Bennett Tomlin
And then without announcement, 25 was cut to 20.

00:05:47:03 - 00:06:04:06
Bennett Tomlin
And so 20 billion of the 100 billion tokens have currently been allocated for the public sale, 22.5 billion have been allocated to Donald Trump's company, as well as a bunch more millions allocated to Trump's friends, the Witkoffs and his children and all that.

00:06:04:12 - 00:06:25:08
Bennett Tomlin
Out of the 20 billion ad, allocated for the public sale, which, again, is less than they're giving Donald Trump himself. And it's less than a third of what they promised to sell to the public, less than 1 billion, less than 5% of the 20, which is, again, one third of what they're supposed to be selling, has sold.

00:06:25:08 - 00:06:54:15
Bennett Tomlin
So far. They have sold 949.16 million tokens out of the 63 billion, they said on the Twitter spaces they were going to be selling, which was eventually quietly cut to 20 billion. So yes, the token is doing really badly. Trump can't sell it. It shouldn't exist. It's non transferrable. It's only stated utility is for governance. And yet they gave more to one individual than they sold to the entire public.

00:06:54:15 - 00:07:13:06
Bennett Tomlin
So no the purpose was never fucking governance you fucking liars. And like the entire thing is just a massive fucking grift at like every single level they could pull it off and, and the embarrassing part is that members of like crypto, Twitter and like crypto executives have come on as like advisers and stuff to that,

00:07:13:06 - 00:07:21:03
Bennett Tomlin
It's dumb. It's dumb. No one should have ever thought this was a good idea, but a bunch of people staked their reputation on it and are going to pretend they didn't.

00:07:21:03 - 00:07:25:03
Bennett Tomlin
Oh and the website went down the first day of the sale. The website was down most of the day.

00:07:25:03 - 00:07:25:16
Cas Piancey
Nice.

00:07:25:16 - 00:07:32:05
Cas Piancey
One thing I did notice on my trip abroad was Brian Armstrong

00:07:32:05 - 00:07:37:12
Cas Piancey
trying to throw his weight behind specific political candidates.

00:07:37:12 - 00:07:46:19
Cas Piancey
And it made me reflect on how a lot of these executives have come out in favor of Donald Trump. And their suggestion is that he's more,

00:07:46:19 - 00:07:49:17
Cas Piancey
that he's essentially pro cryptocurrency.

00:07:49:19 - 00:07:51:17
Cas Piancey
And I guess I'm just curious,

00:07:51:17 - 00:07:58:17
Cas Piancey
It does it make a presidential candidate more pro cryptocurrency if they're willing to? I guess what

00:07:58:20 - 00:08:00:05
Bennett Tomlin
Obviously.

00:08:00:05 - 00:08:13:02
Cas Piancey
going around right now is that they're in the trenches. Right? So if Donald Trump is willing to get in the trenches and scam and be a grifter, is that is that what it takes to be like?

00:08:13:02 - 00:08:15:01
Cas Piancey
I feel like that's the wrong message to

00:08:15:01 - 00:08:39:18
Bennett Tomlin
I, I think well, no, I think that that fundamentally seems to be what the vast majority of the cryptocurrency industry cares about. Because, like, and this came up for me as a bit of frustration when there were certain people calling for, like, Kamala Harris to pivot on crypto. And I kept reading their appeals and reading like her stated policies and things like that.

00:08:39:20 - 00:08:49:11
Bennett Tomlin
And I can't figure out what they weren't. At least I couldn't initially. And then I kept reading and looking at the people saying, and I think what these executives want is

00:08:49:11 - 00:09:04:01
Bennett Tomlin
a Jay Clayton SEC, basically basically non-action on any except the most egregious XRP level projects with, like everything else, ignored no enforcement actions, no investigations, no anything. They want carte blanche.

00:09:04:05 - 00:09:09:18
Bennett Tomlin
And so they're thinking the guy who's willing to run a bad AAVE feeder protocol as well as like,

00:09:09:18 - 00:09:26:00
Bennett Tomlin
a Nontransferable NFT and the guy whose wife her team was was treating her NFT. They look at that, they're like, this guy's not coming after us. No Wells notices are going out in this guy's presidency. And so the reason they're supporting Trump is not because they think Trump is a good faith actor in the cryptocurrency industry.

00:09:26:04 - 00:09:49:12
Bennett Tomlin
I think minus the idiots who are like, directly associated with this project and their lack of judgment. I think many of the people endorsing Trump know this is a bad project. Know most of the things he is doing are like counterproductive in terms of participating in the ecosystem, but they believe he will create the legal and regulatory environment that will give them carte blanche for whatever abuses they feel are most appropriate.

00:09:49:13 - 00:09:50:16
Bennett Tomlin
Plus, he’ll fire Gary.

00:09:50:16 - 00:09:56:21
Cas Piancey
I guess I'm not certain, I don't know, I guess I'm not fully aware of what Kamala's,

00:09:56:21 - 00:09:59:10
Cas Piancey
Cryptocurrency policy is. I know

00:09:59:10 - 00:10:11:22
Bennett Tomlin
It's it's the default you've come to expect. We need to protect innovation. We need to ensure consumer safety. We need a strong framework that ensures everyone and all their interests are equally protected.

00:10:12:03 - 00:10:13:01
Cas Piancey
Okay,

00:10:13:01 - 00:10:20:23
Bennett Tomlin
It's a nothing, right? It's a it's a we're. Well, we'll fund the SEC and we'll keep ignoring it for several years.

00:10:20:23 - 00:10:22:08
Cas Piancey
I see okay. But like.

00:10:22:08 - 00:10:24:22
Cas Piancey
it's not a concern. But I do think that,

00:10:24:22 - 00:10:28:00
Cas Piancey
so there's been a push by

00:10:28:00 - 00:10:30:18
Cas Piancey
Armstrong and several others. There's,

00:10:30:18 - 00:10:32:11
Cas Piancey
What what does it,

00:10:32:11 - 00:10:33:08
Cas Piancey
stand with crypto

00:10:33:08 - 00:10:35:00
Bennett Tomlin
Stand with crypto. Yeah.

00:10:35:00 - 00:10:37:06
Cas Piancey
So I that's the is that a PAC?

00:10:37:06 - 00:10:42:00
Bennett Tomlin
I think it's a super PAC. It might be a Carey committee. I'd have to go back and double check for sure.

00:10:42:00 - 00:10:46:00
Cas Piancey
But they're raising money to lobby, right? I mean, that's that's essentially what they do.

00:10:46:00 - 00:10:50:14
Bennett Tomlin
They're raising money to buy ads and give to candidates.

00:10:50:14 - 00:10:52:18
Cas Piancey
Lobby. Right. And that's lobbying

00:10:52:18 - 00:11:03:17
Bennett Tomlin
Well, lobbying is on, like, behalf of specific pieces of legislation or policy. You go to the already elected people campaign contributions are to people who are not yet elected.

00:11:03:17 - 00:11:13:05
Cas Piancey
and like you said, the goal isn't necessarily even to get legislation passed. It's to do nothing instead, which is like very, very funny. Right.

00:11:13:05 - 00:11:24:20
Bennett Tomlin
Or if you do want legislation passed, you want something that's going to punt it to the CFTC. And then you keep the CFTC budget where it's at, so they can't reasonably like actually regulator run,

00:11:24:20 - 00:11:31:03
Bennett Tomlin
interference on a lot of things. Right. Like that was the big thing like during Sam Bankman-Fried term and came back up in like fit 21.

00:11:31:03 - 00:11:37:01
Bennett Tomlin
Right is you punt crypto to the CFTC. You keep the CFTC funding flat or down and then they're impotent.

00:11:37:01 - 00:11:43:13
Cas Piancey
So I think this is something that you and I have previously expressed in our other episodes,

00:11:43:13 - 00:11:44:19
Cas Piancey
namely,

00:11:44:19 - 00:11:47:14
Cas Piancey
fuck the SEC. All my friends hate the SEC.

00:11:47:14 - 00:12:05:03
Cas Piancey
In which we. I would say that's a pretty strong message that we send in our title, whereas the reality is, it's mostly us saying that the SEC is caught between a rock and a hard place with a lot of this, a lot of this going on, and they've already become paralyzed in a lot of ways.

00:12:05:03 - 00:12:22:15
Cas Piancey
And I think I've heard I've heard someone on Twitter suggest the idea that the CFTC and SEC should just be like, merged and that there should be one government agency embodying both of those. And it's something I'd never really considered before, but I,

00:12:22:15 - 00:12:29:02
Bennett Tomlin
that ideas come up before I feel like there was a push for that post. Great financial crisis as part of, like, the,

00:12:29:02 - 00:12:35:22
Bennett Tomlin
reckoning that the regulatory agencies had to face. And I think mostly what it's come down to historically is,

00:12:35:22 - 00:12:46:18
Bennett Tomlin
passing a new piece of legislation that, like, brings in all the disparate parts of the Exchange Acts and Securities Acts and like repeals them and reframes them into a single agency with the right amount of budget.

00:12:46:18 - 00:12:49:09
Bennett Tomlin
And thing is a hard thing to do. Bipartisan,

00:12:49:09 - 00:12:55:23
Bennett Tomlin
jumping ahead, I'm not particularly opposed to there being like a single financial regulator. Like I think,

00:12:55:23 - 00:13:09:06
Bennett Tomlin
the FCA in the UK has a much broader mandate than like any of the SEC, the FTC or the CFTC in the United States because it I'm not saying they're effective with that mandate.

00:13:09:06 - 00:13:11:08
Bennett Tomlin
I'm just saying their mandate is broad.

00:13:11:08 - 00:13:12:01
Cas Piancey
sure.

00:13:12:01 - 00:13:14:12
Cas Piancey
Sorry. Yeah. I didn't mean to get us off track there, but I just,

00:13:14:12 - 00:13:20:00
Cas Piancey
It's it's just something I'm thinking about with all this stuff going on where

00:13:20:00 - 00:13:27:07
Cas Piancey
these guys are pretending that crypto is such a major issue for a bunch of the American public that it'll be,

00:13:27:07 - 00:13:30:10
Cas Piancey
it'll affect swing states and all of this other.

00:13:30:10 - 00:13:46:06
Cas Piancey
They're spinning this narrative. I think that narrative is already false, but it also is turning things like SEC appointments or CFTC appointments into political messages. And when the candidate is actually grifting like, this is a grift, right?

00:13:46:06 - 00:13:51:17
Cas Piancey
And also none of this money is going directly to the campaign, if I understand correctly, like

00:13:51:20 - 00:13:52:13
Bennett Tomlin
Correct.

00:13:52:13 - 00:13:54:08
Cas Piancey
directly to Donald Trump.

00:13:54:10 - 00:13:57:03
Cas Piancey
So it's just enriching him.

00:13:57:03 - 00:13:59:05
Cas Piancey
I which I yeah, I find it,

00:13:59:05 - 00:14:00:23
Cas Piancey
Really strange that,

00:14:00:23 - 00:14:07:13
Cas Piancey
that that's that a lot of people in crypto think that that's a good message for what the industry stands for.

00:14:07:13 - 00:14:08:06
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah.

00:14:08:06 - 00:14:10:17
Cas Piancey
it feels like there's zero reflection, you know?

00:14:10:17 - 00:14:22:10
Bennett Tomlin
There seem to be a bunch of individuals in cryptocurrency who have signaled that they will gladly vote for a racist rapist as long as they're also a crypto crypto scammer.

00:14:22:10 - 00:14:30:23
Cas Piancey
Yeah, I guess that. Yeah. It's so it's so crazy. I, I know that maybe we even have talked about this before, but there I think block works put out,

00:14:31:01 - 00:14:33:15
Cas Piancey
I think it was Molly Jane Zimmerman.

00:14:33:15 - 00:14:46:08
Bennett Tomlin
Oh, yeah. The reaction to her piece was just wild. I had written several things and I think I avoided a lot of the ire she got because I'm not a woman, and so the sexes didn't feel as compelled to come after me.

00:14:46:08 - 00:14:49:12
Cas Piancey
Yeah, I, I if I recall correctly, she mostly just said,

00:14:49:12 - 00:14:52:19
Cas Piancey
cryptocurrency shouldn't be the main

00:14:52:23 - 00:14:53:14
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah.

00:14:53:14 - 00:15:10:19
Cas Piancey
be thinking about all the issues, and there might be issues that are more important to you. And, like, I think it's fair to say that no president is going to simply, like, be able to kill cryptocurrency. That's like saying they could kill gold when it's

00:15:10:19 - 00:15:33:05
Bennett Tomlin
When crypto is supposed to be unkillable, we joke around about this sometime. But the entire pitch, the whole reason this thing is supposed to exist is because it's supposed to be impossible for the government to kill it. And so, like, the thing they're preserving is not the existence of cryptocurrencies. It's the profitable cryptocurrency industry they are employed by.

00:15:33:06 - 00:15:33:20
Bennett Tomlin
Right.

00:15:33:20 - 00:15:34:04
Cas Piancey
Yes.

00:15:34:04 - 00:15:40:08
Cas Piancey
all points I just wanted. I think it's worth like discussing if we are bringing up a

00:15:40:13 - 00:15:41:10
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah.

00:15:41:10 - 00:15:45:01
Cas Piancey
like candidate, like doing a straight up grift.

00:15:45:01 - 00:15:45:13
Cas Piancey
I know,

00:15:45:13 - 00:15:52:18
Cas Piancey
that seems to be the largest and most silly, stupid thing that has occurred while I've been away.

00:15:52:18 - 00:15:53:01
Cas Piancey
But,

00:15:53:01 - 00:15:53:19
Cas Piancey
has there been other

00:15:53:19 - 00:15:56:08
Bennett Tomlin
There's others. So,

00:15:56:08 - 00:16:18:00
Bennett Tomlin
Justin Sun is now one of the custodians for WBTC. I think you might remember remembered a little bit of this, but yeah, WBTC announced that they were starting a new joint venture with Justin Sun and with Bit Global. Bit global is a Hong Kong custodian, which is run by our friend,

00:16:18:00 - 00:16:21:15
Bennett Tomlin
Jennifer Jiang of, you know, Poloniex Europe.

00:16:21:15 - 00:16:22:23
Bennett Tomlin
True USD,

00:16:22:23 - 00:16:36:02
Bennett Tomlin
BitTorrent fame. So the directors, of course, one of Justin Sen's long time colleagues, all five of the new shareholders were open on the exact same day. And one of them, of course, is a reference to Ayn Rand.

00:16:36:02 - 00:16:36:08
Cas Piancey
Right.

00:16:36:08 - 00:16:40:00
Bennett Tomlin
Just real, real classic Justin Sun stuff. But because of that,

00:16:40:00 - 00:16:47:13
Bennett Tomlin
let's see, MakerDAO initially, like said, they were going to limit new borrowers against BTC, but then ended up reversing on that.

00:16:47:17 - 00:17:06:00
Bennett Tomlin
Coinbase launched their own competitor, CBBTC. Kraken announced their own competitor, kBTC, I think, Justin Sun got really mad at these other competitors and it's like what Coinbase hasn't even done a proof of reserves. This is proof that they've got a bunch of issues.

00:17:06:00 - 00:17:14:07
Bennett Tomlin
And obviously the exchange he owns, Poloniex, also hasn't done a proof of reserves and also has a much larger Bitcoin on Tron product than WBTC.

00:17:14:10 - 00:17:18:06
Bennett Tomlin
So Justin Sun still a hypocrite, which I'm sure you're shocked to hear as you come back.

00:17:18:06 - 00:17:20:05
Cas Piancey
I'm disappointed, to be honest.

00:17:20:05 - 00:17:23:16
Bennett Tomlin
billions of dollars of bitcoin partially because custody by

00:17:23:16 - 00:17:26:05
Bennett Tomlin
just insane. I think that's a good idea.

00:17:26:05 - 00:17:42:04
Cas Piancey
Me too. Yeah, I also like. I'm glad that there's a even further. Like. I guess having, even creating the concept of, like, bitcoin on Ethereum or bitcoin on Solana or Bitcoin on whatever on Tron.

00:17:42:04 - 00:17:44:16
Cas Piancey
Right. You have that's a fragmentation of

00:17:44:16 - 00:17:45:23
Cas Piancey
of Bitcoin

00:17:45:23 - 00:18:00:04
Bennett Tomlin
then some of these folks don't remember, even with how recently Sam Bankman-Fried stole from Bitcoin and Solana, like they've already forgotten that I saw zero people mention that during the Justin something. There is no recollection in crypto. People's memories.

00:18:00:04 - 00:18:14:18
Cas Piancey
Yeah. Well so I mean so that I guess is I am just thinking about how that's like a these are all fragmentation of Bitcoin with now added security issues. Right. Every time you introduce something like this you're adding an extra layer of,

00:18:14:18 - 00:18:16:20
Cas Piancey
security problems that are possible

00:18:16:20 - 00:18:20:16
Bennett Tomlin
More of those layers of trust we were talking about in our last episode.

00:18:20:16 - 00:18:24:01
Cas Piancey
exactly. And but then now,

00:18:24:01 - 00:18:26:23
Bennett Tomlin
And that one of those layers is Justin fucking Sun.

00:18:26:23 - 00:18:33:09
Cas Piancey
added that as, as a major security, like loophole, I'll call it, I don't know.

00:18:33:11 - 00:18:38:23
Cas Piancey
But then also, you're fragmenting the industry further because like you said, you're getting Kraken.

00:18:38:23 - 00:18:40:17
Bennett Tomlin
Three new competitors. Yeah.

00:18:40:17 - 00:18:45:23
Cas Piancey
Three new competitors, all with their own trust issues that they're now introducing to to

00:18:45:23 - 00:18:48:11
Bennett Tomlin
All competing for the same liquidity.

00:18:48:11 - 00:18:57:10
Cas Piancey
And it's it's kind of wild to just be like, wow, how fragmented can this I know we're doing meme coins and we're doing like we're doing.

00:18:57:10 - 00:19:02:20
Cas Piancey
Yeah. It just feels like it's getting more and more fragmented. And I think there's this,

00:19:02:20 - 00:19:19:08
Cas Piancey
it goes along with the understanding of, of their concept of what fiat currency is and stands for and means. So they, they have this belief that there's infinity fiat currency, which is like, okay, it's true to a degree for sure.

00:19:19:08 - 00:19:24:07
Cas Piancey
But like that isn't the way liquidity works in a giant marketplace.

00:19:24:07 - 00:19:53:19
Cas Piancey
And so when you start dragging a bunch of this liquidity out into these incredibly illiquid markets, and you keep dragging it out further and further, like when those things go down in price and the liquidity dries up, that money's gone. Like it doesn't just instantly get replaced by new, new money, you know what I mean? So I just feel like the fragmentation is actually a major issue of drying up liquidity that can't come back.

00:19:53:19 - 00:19:55:07
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. And I should also add,

00:19:55:07 - 00:20:08:17
Bennett Tomlin
Mike Belshe, the CEO and founder of BitGo. Legitimately believed people would not be upset at the new role of Justin Sun. And after they realized people were upset, they went back on the plan to give him two of the three keys.

00:20:08:20 - 00:20:18:21
Bennett Tomlin
And now, like one keys at BitGo America, one is at BitGo Singapore and one is at BiT Global, which means Justin Sun probably didn't get what he what he wanted out of the deal.

00:20:18:21 - 00:20:21:04
Bennett Tomlin
But yeah, just a real mess.

00:20:21:04 - 00:20:22:03
Cas Piancey
Okay. Well, that,

00:20:22:03 - 00:20:24:01
Cas Piancey
Yeah. That doesn't. That doesn't surprise me.

00:20:24:01 - 00:20:29:23
Bennett Tomlin
In other news, do you remember northern data? Of course you remember northern data. Tether's favorite Bitcoin miner.

00:20:29:23 - 00:20:35:04
Bennett Tomlin
So northern data the bitcoin miner has announced that they're considering no longer mining bitcoins.

00:20:35:22 - 00:20:37:06
Bennett Tomlin
They're going full AI.

00:20:37:06 - 00:20:39:19
Cas Piancey
knew that I was about to be like. So I then.

00:20:39:19 - 00:20:43:07
Bennett Tomlin
Because that's where they're making their money from. Their revenue from rain,

00:20:43:07 - 00:20:50:13
Bennett Tomlin
from mining, both in absolute terms and in relative terms, have been consistently following the last several quarters.

00:20:50:13 - 00:20:59:21
Bennett Tomlin
And then speaking of tether mining, there was another joint venture, 2040 energy, which was done between,

00:20:59:21 - 00:21:03:14
Bennett Tomlin
Swan and Tether to do Bitcoin mining.

00:21:03:14 - 00:21:26:19
Bennett Tomlin
It was, it seems to have largely been operated and managed by Swan, but was entirely funded by tether. And there's a lawsuit now from Swan that basically tried to sue former Swan executives and consultants because they decided to leave this joint venture, start a new company, and

00:21:26:19 - 00:21:31:01
Bennett Tomlin
in so doing, like take the roll from Swan out from underneath them.

00:21:31:04 - 00:21:45:16
Bennett Tomlin
So Swan was helping operate. This was Swan executive Swan started to have problems in doing layoffs. These Swan executives get nervous. They start planning their exit. They reach out, apparently to tether, to get tethered, to provide them cover.

00:21:45:16 - 00:21:55:05
Bennett Tomlin
And then they leave. They all, like, announced the resignation at the same time because they all resign at the same time.

00:21:55:05 - 00:22:12:06
Bennett Tomlin
Swan ends up in breach of their agreement with 2040 energy, the like joint venture between them and tether. And in so doing, tether is able to effectively replace Swan with the new firms set up with the former Swan executives and consultants and cut Swan out of this mining deal. Right.

00:22:12:06 - 00:22:14:05
Bennett Tomlin
So that's what's been going on there.

00:22:14:05 - 00:22:24:15
Bennett Tomlin
Swan is trying to say that the valuable thing that was stolen from them was their dashboard that tracks their mining rigs and maybe some of their miner optimizations.

00:22:24:17 - 00:22:27:15
Bennett Tomlin
And if you want my frank opinion of that.

00:22:27:17 - 00:22:28:08
Bennett Tomlin
You.

00:22:28:10 - 00:22:46:09
Bennett Tomlin
No, those are not valuable. Like, whatever Dashboard Swan developed, I'm assuming, took some amount of development time and there is some amount of cost to the business in that, but it is not uniquely differentiated to like, represent. Oh, this is what makes Swan special. For one thing, Swan is not special.

00:22:46:09 - 00:23:03:07
Cas Piancey
I would think that tether would want something like that just based on their other investments that they've made, which, protests did. A pub. Pub which is already now out of date because of new investments from tether, which I also wanted to. It's like, again, one of the few things I caught up with caught wind of,

00:23:03:07 - 00:23:11:18
Cas Piancey
they could use the IP from someone for some of their other investments. I would think like bootstrapping. Bootstrapping,

00:23:11:18 - 00:23:19:17
Cas Piancey
little business, like money transmitting businesses or money services businesses in in a bunch of,

00:23:19:17 - 00:23:26:23
Cas Piancey
I guess I'll just say, I don't know, in countries that don't necessarily have easy access to US dollars.

00:23:26:23 - 00:23:32:07
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, but the specific IP of this dashboard that helps manage your,

00:23:32:07 - 00:23:38:22
Bennett Tomlin
miners and tells you what the weather is at your data centers is not, like, a valuable thing that tether needs to steal.

00:23:38:22 - 00:23:41:09
Bennett Tomlin
So that's tether and mining.

00:23:41:09 - 00:23:44:17
Bennett Tomlin
Other things that have happened Do Kwon's extradition got delayed.

00:23:44:17 - 00:23:51:17
Cas Piancey
So this is an ongoing thing that I, I feel like we haven't we haven't really talked much about Daquan since

00:23:52:02 - 00:23:57:05
Bennett Tomlin
We we we did. We did a couple times. Like the first time his extradition got delayed or something.

00:23:57:05 - 00:24:00:04
Cas Piancey
It's now happened about 15 times or something.

00:24:00:04 - 00:24:04:23
Cas Piancey
It it does feel a bit. There's I think there's this

00:24:04:23 - 00:24:18:13
Cas Piancey
I don't know what to call it other than like this concept in the world where the Balkans as a region, due to its long history and like recent ethnic strife and wars,

00:24:18:13 - 00:24:21:15
Cas Piancey
is kind of perceived as this huge.

00:24:21:17 - 00:24:26:14
Cas Piancey
Corrupt area. And I don't know, seeing,

00:24:26:14 - 00:24:51:13
Cas Piancey
yeah. Seeing this stuff happen in Montenegro over and over and over and over and over again definitely feels almost purposeful. And I know that's not what's happening. You know, Occam's razor, like, this is the epitome of bad governance and there's no conspiracy needed, but like, wow, just the incompetence and the crazy back and forth is

00:24:51:15 - 00:25:03:13
Bennett Tomlin
But there might be a conspiracy. So you say there's no conspiracy needed. But there were those meetings in those payments. And like, there's. There's not nothing in terms of conspiracy. There.

00:25:03:13 - 00:25:08:08
Cas Piancey
No. In terms of like the involvement of the government of the current, you know,

00:25:08:08 - 00:25:10:20
Bennett Tomlin
Of corruption.

00:25:10:20 - 00:25:22:09
Cas Piancey
that's for sure. But I think like at this point, the idea that like the Supreme Court and I don't even know how it's working, like lower courts and all this stuff,

00:25:22:09 - 00:25:25:00
Cas Piancey
are fighting about,

00:25:25:00 - 00:25:29:23
Cas Piancey
which country to extradite him to and what, how much that matters ultimately.

00:25:30:05 - 00:25:42:09
Cas Piancey
Like, I'm not sure. I know it's a political issue in Montenegro, but like, does it is it going to be a huge difference of where he first gets extradited? I don't know, I guess maybe

00:25:42:09 - 00:26:02:02
Bennett Tomlin
might matter to him that I'm not familiar enough with the particularities of the South Korean legal system to give, like. I mean, besides, I know what they do to their former presidents, but, like, I don't have, like, a well-developed opinion on what would happen to Do Kwon if he gets extradited there first versus the United States. You know?

00:26:02:02 - 00:26:07:16
Cas Piancey
the idea that opponents of the current prime minister have suggested is that

00:26:07:16 - 00:26:24:23
Cas Piancey
he would prefer South Korea, because then the investigations won't implicate him. I don't know how true that is. Like, is South Korea just going to not look further into it? I have no idea why that would be the running narrative, but maybe that's true.

00:26:24:23 - 00:26:25:14
Cas Piancey
I don't really

00:26:25:14 - 00:26:28:18
Cas Piancey
understand why, but I it's possible, I guess.

00:26:28:18 - 00:26:43:22
Cas Piancey
So yeah, I, I that's that's not also not surprising. I did want to bring up that tether did a large investment in at a Koa grow. I think I'm saying that right I don't know or at Adecco Agro

00:26:43:22 - 00:26:45:22
Bennett Tomlin
That was the South American one, right?

00:26:45:22 - 00:26:48:16
Cas Piancey
Yeah. They did this investment in

00:26:48:18 - 00:26:54:19
Cas Piancey
early September, but I feel like it got no real coverage.

00:26:54:21 - 00:27:08:01
Cas Piancey
They own nearly 10% of this kind of an enormous Latin American ag company. They purchased $100 million in stock. I guess I haven't looked into the deal. Exactly. And how they structured it.

00:27:08:01 - 00:27:09:09
Cas Piancey
It just seems like a really.

00:27:09:09 - 00:27:15:03
Cas Piancey
Weird choice for a $100 million investment for tether.

00:27:15:03 - 00:27:20:03
Cas Piancey
I'm not sure why they're investing in a Latin American agricultural company.

00:27:20:05 - 00:27:21:15
Bennett Tomlin
Why not?

00:27:21:15 - 00:27:25:07
Cas Piancey
it has nothing to do with their current business model, does it?

00:27:25:07 - 00:27:48:01
Bennett Tomlin
I think part of the problem might be that Tether's current business model doesn't require much. They have so much money and so many assets that, like, sure, they could just keep dumping them into U.S. treasuries. But the more they keep dumping into US treasuries, the more Howard Lutnick could fuck them over. Right? And so like putting some money in other places, doing other things.

00:27:48:01 - 00:27:52:21
Bennett Tomlin
Why not. They're still getting plenty. They're getting billions and billions in profits like.

00:27:52:21 - 00:27:54:22
Cas Piancey
I do think part of this is that

00:27:54:22 - 00:28:02:14
Cas Piancey
their suggestion, I think, is that all of this money is coming from their extra money. Like this

00:28:02:16 - 00:28:03:06
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah.

00:28:03:06 - 00:28:04:01
Cas Piancey
reserves.

00:28:04:02 - 00:28:04:15
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah.

00:28:04:15 - 00:28:10:00
Cas Piancey
Right. And and I guess I'm looking at it and I'm like, okay, maybe it's because

00:28:10:00 - 00:28:17:23
Cas Piancey
Tico Agro is also getting involved in, like, ethanol and energy production

00:28:18:02 - 00:28:38:08
Bennett Tomlin
Could be. Could be that they think the land might be valuable for, like, solar generation or wind generation or something like that. And that they probably could be, like, partially a land or real estate kind of play. I think trying to read too far into some of Tether's investments would make us lose the little remaining sanity we have on the tether topic.

00:28:38:08 - 00:28:39:02
Cas Piancey
Yeah. There was,

00:28:39:02 - 00:28:43:21
Cas Piancey
I, you and I were also talking about the Satellogic investment that they made.

00:28:43:21 - 00:28:46:01
Cas Piancey
Which is just very odd.

00:28:46:05 - 00:28:48:22
Bennett Tomlin
I think that's because Paolo thinks rockets are cool.

00:28:48:22 - 00:28:58:16
Cas Piancey
I also think it's because, well, they have, like, their platform. I don't remember what it's called. What is it called? Punch hole. Punch hole, which is like a nut

00:28:58:22 - 00:29:05:02
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, I think they went. I think they went a satellite in space, like a more advanced version of the Blockstream one. Basically.

00:29:05:02 - 00:29:11:05
Cas Piancey
Which for anyone who is unfamiliar with what he's referring to, was this. It was when Samson Mow

00:29:11:16 - 00:29:16:04
Bennett Tomlin
Still is. They rent space on, like, 2 or 3 different satellites still to this day. For that.

00:29:16:04 - 00:29:23:22
Cas Piancey
for sure. I'm just saying, like the concept was evolved when Samson Mao was on board as the CSO at Blockstream, and,

00:29:23:22 - 00:29:35:13
Cas Piancey
they decided, like, the way to really make it immutable is to have a satellite that can connect to your Bitcoin. What, like node or whatever. And,

00:29:35:13 - 00:29:39:19
Cas Piancey
you know, like, like you said, I guess they're still doing it and

00:29:39:19 - 00:29:41:07
Bennett Tomlin
Three satellites.

00:29:41:07 - 00:29:42:09
Cas Piancey
that's fine.

00:29:42:09 - 00:29:44:11
Cas Piancey
I don't know how much that really.

00:29:44:13 - 00:29:52:11
Bennett Tomlin
Wait, two of these satellites have the same name, but they're the same satellite. Just using different radios. So two satellites.

00:29:52:11 - 00:30:00:16
Cas Piancey
So anyway, I guess the idea is, like, I'm not sure how much more immutable that makes Bitcoin, but okay, you know, whatever.

00:30:00:16 - 00:30:02:17
Cas Piancey
I guess it was a marketing gimmick. I don't know

00:30:02:17 - 00:30:04:12
Bennett Tomlin
think you might be onto something that,

00:30:04:12 - 00:30:09:05
Bennett Tomlin
tether has imagined in their head a similar marketing gimmick with,

00:30:09:05 - 00:30:10:06
Bennett Tomlin
Keet and holepunch.

00:30:10:06 - 00:30:11:08
Cas Piancey
Yes, exactly.

00:30:11:08 - 00:30:14:00
Cas Piancey
But. Yeah. Sorry. What? Is there anything else

00:30:14:03 - 00:30:17:18
Bennett Tomlin
Oh, yes. Speaking of brands and what brands should be doing,

00:30:17:18 - 00:30:19:05
Bennett Tomlin
World coin is now world.

00:30:19:05 - 00:30:21:05
Cas Piancey
Oh, yeah. World coin. Really

00:30:21:05 - 00:30:27:06
Bennett Tomlin
There's still there's still only, like, half of 1% of their stated eyeball goal for, like, 2022.

00:30:27:06 - 00:30:33:01
Bennett Tomlin
But their world now, plus their new orb has AI performance for reasons.

00:30:33:01 - 00:30:52:19
Cas Piancey
someone I know and, like, on cryptocurrency Twitter said that they had invested in that token because they felt like there was no other way for publicly facing retail investors to try to get a slice of what Sam Altman is working on.

00:30:52:19 - 00:30:55:05
Bennett Tomlin
When it Microsoft be the cleaner planet.

00:30:55:05 - 00:30:56:09
Cas Piancey
what I was thinking, too,

00:30:56:15 - 00:31:01:18
Bennett Tomlin
Well or Microsoft for Nvidia is going to be your cleaner play on that than world coin right.

00:31:01:18 - 00:31:05:00
Cas Piancey
Oh, my God, Microsoft has been really killing it, hasn't it?

00:31:05:02 - 00:31:26:07
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. And their deal terms with open AI are really good. Like Microsoft's got the really good end of the deal where they can disproportionately benefit over open AI. And so they might actually serve as kind of a levered bet with cap downside and opening AI. So anyone who's saying world coin is the best bet unquote mean I've got questions about their analysis.

00:31:26:07 - 00:31:34:10
Cas Piancey
I'm looking at the coin and it spiked and went up to almost $12. And now it's worth two.

00:31:34:16 - 00:31:35:13
Bennett Tomlin
It's a big fall.

00:31:35:13 - 00:31:36:10
Cas Piancey
pretty big fall.

00:31:36:10 - 00:31:44:00
Cas Piancey
And I again think I think they were saying proof of human proof of humanity or something like that.

00:31:44:01 - 00:31:51:13
Cas Piancey
And I hate, I hate it, I hate the orb, I hate, I hate everything about world coin. I think Sam Altman is,

00:31:51:15 - 00:31:55:03
Cas Piancey
duplicitous, I think would be the the word that I would use.

00:31:55:03 - 00:31:56:12
Bennett Tomlin
At minimum.

00:31:56:12 - 00:32:16:19
Bennett Tomlin
Speaking of rebranding, MakerDAO rebranded as Sky so that they could launch a new yield thing as well as change the unit for their governance token. But then people didn't really like the brand. So now they might bring maker back and it might be like the Sky money front end powered by MakerDAO or something like that.

00:32:17:00 - 00:32:27:12
Bennett Tomlin
So they spent millions of dollars rebranding from MakerDAO, like one of the oldest and most serious like DeFi brands to Sky. And then people were like, why do we do this?

00:32:27:12 - 00:32:35:23
Cas Piancey
You know, I've been enjoying the numerous rebranding failures that we've been witnessing through throughout tech in general.

00:32:35:23 - 00:32:52:16
Bennett Tomlin
I got to speak past you to the audience for a second. Anyone involved with MakerDAO who is watching this video get rune as far away from the project as you can't. MakerDAO has the potential to be like a really important thing, but rune can't help fiddling with it. He looks at and he's like, I gotta touch it.

00:32:52:20 - 00:33:09:07
Bennett Tomlin
I gotta take the MakerDAO money and put it in climate change. I gotta take the MakerDAO money and make it no longer a dollar. I gotta take the brand and make it sky take him far away from this project. I know he was helpful in the beginning. I know that it would have been hard to do it without him, but you guys, you gotta get him out of there, okay?

00:33:09:07 - 00:33:11:23
Bennett Tomlin
That's all. You can go back to your point about rebranding efforts now.

00:33:11:23 - 00:33:18:19
Cas Piancey
I'm just enjoying the failures we've got. We've got Facebook becoming meta, which everyone just

00:33:18:22 - 00:33:20:16
Bennett Tomlin
Which everyone calls it.

00:33:20:16 - 00:33:23:11
Cas Piancey
Facebook. Even before that, when Google

00:33:23:14 - 00:33:26:01
Bennett Tomlin
You've got Twitter, which rebranded to something.

00:33:26:01 - 00:33:40:06
Cas Piancey
yeah, well, I, I still think that's an incredible what a beautiful way to even burn your money further where like he had already burned himself. Really badly with that investment. And people will say it's not about the investment I.

00:33:40:08 - 00:33:41:19
Cas Piancey
Okay, sure. Whatever.

00:33:41:19 - 00:33:42:18
Cas Piancey
But like

00:33:42:18 - 00:33:53:00
Bennett Tomlin
We've said crypto Twitter like five times in this conversation. And I wasn't even, like, intentionally trying to, like, spiked ax or something like that. It's just Twitter.

00:33:53:00 - 00:34:14:07
Cas Piancey
And no one says like. And then I posted it's like, no, you tweeted, you know, like why why destroy the only valuable part of the company like, that is the one thing of value that you if you didn't touch it, it could still remain the same. Pretty much that part of it. And he was like, no, we're destroying that and getting rid of the bird.

00:34:14:07 - 00:34:15:00
Cas Piancey
And you're just like,

00:34:15:00 - 00:34:24:17
Bennett Tomlin
Hey, maybe that'll be good for the final valuation when the banks take over, because that trademark will have some less of the albatross is hung from around its neck.

00:34:24:17 - 00:34:25:05
Cas Piancey
maybe.

00:34:25:05 - 00:34:31:06
Bennett Tomlin
Speaking of failures, do you to. Let's let's talk about FTX and Alameda Research for just a minute.

00:34:31:06 - 00:34:39:08
Bennett Tomlin
Caroline Ellison got sentenced to prison. Ryan Salame got sent to prison after a just wonderful interview.

00:34:39:10 - 00:34:55:07
Bennett Tomlin
He kept trying to argue that his dog bites should keep him from prison. But the prosecutors in the judge were like, we saw you on Tucker Carlson, sir. Go to the Bureau of Prisons today. So that happened around Salame.

00:34:55:07 - 00:35:05:03
Bennett Tomlin
Nishad Singh still hopes to avoid prison. Gary Wang's sentencing is coming up. But more and more of the FTX executives are going to jail.

00:35:05:05 - 00:35:13:08
Bennett Tomlin
And unfortunately, some of the people involved seem unlikely to be indicted. Looking at you, Joseph and Barbara,

00:35:13:08 - 00:35:18:09
Cas Piancey
think the one that I keep. Maybe you two that I keep reflecting on is,

00:35:18:09 - 00:35:21:09
Cas Piancey
Trabuco. Tabasco.

00:35:21:09 - 00:35:32:05
Cas Piancey
You know, I, I know some people have forgotten him as an integral part of this story. I guess the I, the running idea is that he must have gone to authorities as soon as he left or something.

00:35:32:05 - 00:35:34:08
Cas Piancey
Right. I think that's what everyone thinks happened

00:35:34:08 - 00:35:54:08
Bennett Tomlin
Well, I think he did the classic one two punch that we've talked about, like with Arthur Hayes. He was smart enough to get outside the borders, get outside the places where they can just come and grab you and then contact the most expensive lawyer you can find, and then have that lawyer contact the authorities. And I think Sam did those steps in the right order.

00:35:54:12 - 00:35:57:11
Cas Piancey
Yeah. To be clear, Sam Trabuco, we're not talking about,

00:35:57:11 - 00:35:59:19
Cas Piancey
SBF, he did everything wrong.

00:35:59:19 - 00:36:04:14
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Sam Trabuco, he followed the Arthur Hayes example

00:36:04:14 - 00:36:14:10
Cas Piancey
even better, though. Really? Because he. If he got a deal where a sweetheart deal where it's like. Yeah, well, you came to us first. You get to keep all your shit.

00:36:14:10 - 00:36:17:05
Bennett Tomlin
For as long as you keep cooperating in.

00:36:17:05 - 00:36:21:02
Cas Piancey
pretty awesome deal that he that he took.

00:36:21:04 - 00:36:21:17
Cas Piancey
And I think

00:36:22:09 - 00:36:31:02
Bennett Tomlin
But especially especially in light of the fact that, like Caroline Ellison also cooperated pretty extensively and is still getting two years right.

00:36:31:02 - 00:36:32:22
Cas Piancey
Right, right.

00:36:32:22 - 00:36:35:14
Cas Piancey
Glad to see Ryan. Watts

00:36:35:14 - 00:36:37:05
Cas Piancey
salami. I don't know how you say

00:36:37:18 - 00:36:41:05
Bennett Tomlin
It's funny or to say, Salameh, but I don't think it's actually sorry.

00:36:41:05 - 00:36:46:06
Cas Piancey
I'm glad that he's, I'm glad he's gone. That's good to see.

00:36:46:09 - 00:36:48:22
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. And his girlfriend. Sorry. Michelle Bond,

00:36:48:22 - 00:37:01:02
Cas Piancey
and I know that the he's saying that he is going back. He wants to go back on his his plea because, they're going after his, I guess, girlfriend, Michelle Bond,

00:37:01:08 - 00:37:05:14
Bennett Tomlin
He he he claims he was induced to plea by,

00:37:05:14 - 00:37:11:09
Bennett Tomlin
effectively being told that they would not pursue Michelle for crimes involving,

00:37:11:09 - 00:37:42:07
Bennett Tomlin
that they would not pursue Michelle for his crimes or things like that. The documents submitted by the various prosecutors and lawyers and stuff make me think that that's not exactly what was said. Make me think that there may have been some intimations about investigations that might go pause or things like that, but based on the contemporaneous notes from like, the prosecutors and stuff, it does not seem to me that what they actually said was there will be no investigation or indictment of Michelle after you plea.

00:37:42:07 - 00:37:54:01
Bennett Tomlin
think it's also unlikely that Ryan actually goes through with trying to pull out of his guilty plea because that would, like, void his sentencing. And he already did get like some points reduction and things like that.

00:37:54:01 - 00:38:06:02
Cas Piancey
my favorite part of all of this has been. So he did that Tucker Carlson Carlson interview. And I think my favorite part was when he said, like, well, you know, I'm a wealthy white male

00:38:06:02 - 00:38:09:12
Cas Piancey
who, the jurors would hate me. And I was just

00:38:09:16 - 00:38:12:00
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. That's who jurors hate.

00:38:12:00 - 00:38:14:02
Cas Piancey
just like, oh,

00:38:14:21 - 00:38:22:07
Bennett Tomlin
That famous juror. That famous historical juror. Bias against rich, straight white men.

00:38:22:07 - 00:38:25:06
Cas Piancey
You have every advantage ever.

00:38:25:06 - 00:38:31:00
Bennett Tomlin
Everyone else in this country can get a fair trial. Except for rich, straight, white men.

00:38:31:00 - 00:38:42:12
Cas Piancey
idea of, like most a bunch of minorities having to resort to using a state, you know, state defenders or whatever, who are just instantly saying, like, just plea

00:38:42:12 - 00:39:06:03
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, like desperate folks who can barely, like, speak the language, relying on public defenders for crimes they don't even like. Fully understand. And. And Ryan's like, I'm the real victim here. I assure I withdrew $10 million in the days before the exchange collapse, but I needed it to pay my expensive lawyers. Was, like, literally part of the Tucker Carlson interview.

00:39:06:08 - 00:39:07:16
Bennett Tomlin
And I'm watching it and I'm like,

00:39:07:16 - 00:39:20:16
Bennett Tomlin
also, bankruptcy fraud was one of the charges prosecutors considered but did not file against him. So being like, sure, I withdrew money, but it was to pay my lawyers is not a thing you should be saying in an interview, you fucking idiot.

00:39:20:16 - 00:39:29:13
Cas Piancey
Yeah, I it was just incredible how I. And, you know, of course, Tucker Carlson isn't going to push back on on those statements, but it was.

00:39:29:13 - 00:39:39:13
Bennett Tomlin
especially not anymore. Maybe a little bit. He might have when he was early in his TV career, but now that he's podcasting out of his garage like.

00:39:39:13 - 00:39:44:00
Cas Piancey
he's never he's always been a fucking idiot as far as I'm concerned. But whatever.

00:39:44:00 - 00:39:49:06
Cas Piancey
Anyway. Yeah. Any anything else outside of the FTX gang?

00:39:49:12 - 00:39:50:23
Bennett Tomlin
Sure.

00:39:50:23 - 00:40:06:02
Bennett Tomlin
The iOS founder, Daniel Larimer, created an Semitic biblical apocalypse theory that stated that the last great day of the world was on October 9th. So the world ended. We were all there for it.

00:40:06:09 - 00:40:07:04
Cas Piancey
I remember.

00:40:07:07 - 00:40:10:13
Bennett Tomlin
Crypto people gave that guy $5 billion at one point.

00:40:10:13 - 00:40:13:01
Bennett Tomlin
That's that's really my takeaway there.

00:40:13:03 - 00:40:17:19
Cas Piancey
blend in Brendan Blumer. He's not involved with us anymore. Right?

00:40:17:19 - 00:40:23:22
Bennett Tomlin
I think he might have been involved with some of the community efforts to, like, fork it away or take it over something.

00:40:23:22 - 00:40:27:11
Cas Piancey
remember now, and so someone I was talking to, someone about how he was involved with,

00:40:27:17 - 00:40:29:08
Bennett Tomlin
No, he is still at Block One.

00:40:29:08 - 00:40:31:23
Cas Piancey
He's he's involved in bullish. I think he founded bullish

00:40:31:23 - 00:40:36:23
Bennett Tomlin
it was spun out from block one with a bunch of the funds they raised after they sold their ether.

00:40:36:23 - 00:40:41:22
Cas Piancey
And then one of the main investors in bullish is

00:40:41:22 - 00:40:57:07
Cas Piancey
Founders Fund Peter Peter Thiel's founders fund. And someone was like why would I. I was like, oh, that means Peter Thiel does investments like that because he gets to wield a bunch of power when he when he makes those investments, he gets a huge say in what

00:40:57:08 - 00:41:03:07
Bennett Tomlin
Well, especially in a case like that, because bullish didn't need the money, right? When they were spun out, they were spun out with billions.

00:41:03:07 - 00:41:07:15
Cas Piancey
Yeah. They won't. You say that they don't need the money. But I think why else

00:41:08:07 - 00:41:14:02
Bennett Tomlin
Well, that they they wanted him on the cap table. They wanted him strategically.

00:41:14:02 - 00:41:22:07
Cas Piancey
but I also think there's this myth that Blumer and and bullish still have a bunch of money. I,

00:41:22:07 - 00:41:23:07
Bennett Tomlin
They do.

00:41:23:07 - 00:41:23:21
Cas Piancey
I mean how

00:41:23:21 - 00:41:40:18
Bennett Tomlin
You could check the SEC filings from like when bullish was spun out, they were spun out with like $9 billion in their company accounts or something. Yeah. Like the almost all the funds from like block one. They were they got them in ether. They held the ether until like near the peak, dumped them for like billions more than they'd actually raised in ether.

00:41:40:22 - 00:41:52:13
Bennett Tomlin
And then spun a bunch of those billions out into bullish, like initially had a plan to like Spac or pipe it that ended up falling through and they ended up raising a fund with like Founders Fund and a bunch of that to like, price in.

00:41:52:13 - 00:42:03:15
Cas Piancey
and Blumer is lost. It. So he lost. Didn't he lose nearly $100 million on his silver gate? And he tried to save Silvergate, and he spent nearly $100

00:42:03:18 - 00:42:10:00
Bennett Tomlin
Oh, wait, that's not a name like I forgot Christian Angermeyer is involved in the fucking bullish spin out.

00:42:10:00 - 00:42:10:10
Cas Piancey
Yeah.

00:42:10:10 - 00:42:17:03
Bennett Tomlin
I knew that, I knew that because he works with Peter Teeling on that. But I had forgotten. That's a tether advisor for people who don't know.

00:42:17:03 - 00:42:20:16
Cas Piancey
just bringing it up because those guys from iOS, I guess

00:42:20:16 - 00:42:25:03
Cas Piancey
I'm just it's doesn't surprise I. Daniel Larimer has long been a,

00:42:25:05 - 00:42:28:21
Cas Piancey
religious. I don't know what I'm going to

00:42:29:03 - 00:42:29:19
Bennett Tomlin
Nut.

00:42:29:19 - 00:42:39:06
Cas Piancey
I'm trying not to use that kind of terminology, but he is a I guess, extremist in his perspectives on a lot of things is how I would put it.

00:42:39:06 - 00:42:42:15
Bennett Tomlin
Sure. I would call him an anti-Semitic nutjob.

00:42:42:15 - 00:42:45:20
Cas Piancey
Yeah. Anti antisemitic for sure.

00:42:45:20 - 00:42:51:23
Cas Piancey
And I guess that automatically makes you crazy, I guess is the term I'll say something like that.

00:42:51:23 - 00:43:00:09
Cas Piancey
But then, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of religion involved in this, in this industry for some reason.

00:43:00:09 - 00:43:02:02
Cas Piancey
But yeah, that I like that doesn't surprise

00:43:02:02 - 00:43:05:07
Bennett Tomlin
world didn't end.

00:43:05:09 - 00:43:06:08
Bennett Tomlin
Spoilers.

00:43:06:08 - 00:43:07:15
Cas Piancey
that that is

00:43:07:15 - 00:43:23:16
Cas Piancey
Yeah, I it just doesn't surprise me that much that he's going there. And I also I'm just reflecting on these other EOS founders and, and like people involved with it who continue to do kind of morally questionable bullshit.

00:43:23:16 - 00:43:29:10
Bennett Tomlin
In other news, Britannia Bank, one of the banks that tether has historically banked with.

00:43:29:10 - 00:43:46:13
Bennett Tomlin
Bought all or almost all of the bank and bank like operations of Deltec Bank and trust. Did not buy the actual bank. Just bought like the lines of business. So Deltec Bank still exists, but is now mostly empty, I guess. And Britannia Bank has all the business that Deltec Bank used to be doing.

00:43:46:14 - 00:43:49:14
Bennett Tomlin
And those are both tether banks. And that's strange.

00:43:49:14 - 00:43:58:16
Cas Piancey
you think, Jean Chalopin got from that? He had to get something right. Did he just clean his hands of a dirty business or what? Like,

00:43:58:18 - 00:44:33:02
Bennett Tomlin
I think that the legal and regulatory pressures from a combination of FTX, Tether and Alameda Research over the last several years made operating Deltec vastly more complicated than they wanted. And they also saw an opportunity to take some of the executives who have been spending their time and that very regulator and law enforcement intensive part of the business, and perhaps reallocate them to things like Delchain or some of their like investment funds or things like that, things that are a lot neater in a sense.

00:44:33:02 - 00:44:45:22
Bennett Tomlin
Right? You don't end up having one of your executives texting with Sam Bankman-Fried like, ha ha ha, just sent over 2 billion. Ha ha ha, lol. Most banks wouldn't interrupt their movie night to send you $2 billion.

00:44:45:22 - 00:44:52:00
Bennett Tomlin
Lol. So like, they don't want any more texts like that to come out. You know, that's just a theory. We don't know.

00:44:52:00 - 00:44:56:09
Bennett Tomlin
But like and my guess is the pressure mounted and they decided exit was easier.

00:44:56:09 - 00:44:57:12
Cas Piancey
Okay. Interesting.

00:44:57:12 - 00:45:00:16
Cas Piancey
I'm not surprised by any of this, but it it all seems,

00:45:00:18 - 00:45:02:00
Cas Piancey
in line with,

00:45:02:00 - 00:45:12:00
Cas Piancey
what normally happens. I guess. Nothing too crazy outside of Donald Trump and his nutty behavior. Which, again, isn't something that surprises me too much. So

00:45:12:00 - 00:45:21:00
Bennett Tomlin
I do have one last update TrueUSD. My one of my favorite stablecoins. I don't know where to put it in the list, but it's up there.

00:45:21:00 - 00:45:27:15
Bennett Tomlin
They had to settle charges with the SEC over, you know, sending a whole bunch of their backing to First Digital.

00:45:27:15 - 00:45:31:04
Bennett Tomlin
And, like, misrepresenting what that fund was invested in.

00:45:31:06 - 00:45:59:08
Bennett Tomlin
So they sent all this money over. They said it was backed like dollar for dollar. But it turns out that that first digital fund they were invested in was very risky investing in trade finance, structured trade, export finance, import finance, supply chain financing and project financing of entities and memorandums. For this fund, they were invested in specifically listed as speculative, and told investors that they needed to be prepared to bear the risk of losing most or all of their investments.

00:45:59:10 - 00:46:10:05
Bennett Tomlin
And this is noteworthy one because, as we've said, Justin Sun almost definitely owns TrueUSD or Justin Sun owned entity owns true USD. If you feel like that's an meaningful distinction.

00:46:10:05 - 00:46:10:17
Bennett Tomlin
And

00:46:10:17 - 00:46:17:03
Bennett Tomlin
yeah, they were doing a bunch of shady stuff with the reserves. Oh, and now First Digital has their own stablecoin because of course they fucking do.

00:46:17:03 - 00:46:19:15
Cas Piancey
Yeah. I wonder how that's doing. What is it? First, digital's

00:46:20:09 - 00:46:33:05
Bennett Tomlin
It it grew quickly when Binance was eliminating true USD, but its growth has slowed. And it does claim to only be invested in like, safer things. It does not seem to have been invested in this same fund that,

00:46:33:05 - 00:46:35:02
Bennett Tomlin
true USD was invested in.

00:46:35:05 - 00:46:37:14
Cas Piancey
2.6 billion

00:46:37:14 - 00:46:40:10
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, it it grew pretty quick when it was the,

00:46:40:10 - 00:46:42:10
Bennett Tomlin
zero fee maker taker on,

00:46:42:10 - 00:46:43:03
Bennett Tomlin
Binance.

00:46:43:03 - 00:46:45:02
Cas Piancey
But not growing anymore. Seems like

00:46:45:05 - 00:46:46:21
Bennett Tomlin
No, because it's no longer that.

00:46:46:21 - 00:46:52:17
Bennett Tomlin
Or they might have re-added it. They changed that every few weeks. But a couple months ago it was removed.

00:46:52:17 - 00:46:54:16
Cas Piancey
see. Okay, interesting.

00:46:54:16 - 00:46:57:04
Cas Piancey
Cool. Well, I guess that gets me

00:46:57:07 - 00:47:03:16
Bennett Tomlin
There's the news. All the news that's fit for us to talk about for an hour.

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5 responses to “Episode 157 – Donald Trump, Justin Sun, and the grifts we missed”

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