Crypto Critics' Corner

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Episode 168 – When did you realize Elon Musk was a fraud?

The Realization™ (Elon Musk is a Fraud) – Crypto Critics' Corner

Bennett and Cas discuss when they had their personal realization that Elon Musk was a deceiver.Additional episodes mentioned in this episode: Episode 131 – Elon Musk’s ESG Con (feat. Eric Roesch the ESGHound)Additional resources: Bennett's video about robotaxisQuinn69TV video about Elon liesBonhoeffer's Theory of StupidityThis episode was recorded on February 14th, 2025.

Cas Piancey and Bennett Tomlin discuss when they had their personal realization that Elon Musk was a deceiver.

This podcast was recorded on February 14th, 2025.

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English Transcript:

00:00:05:08 - 00:00:12:12
Cas Piancey
Welcome back everyone. I am Cas Piancey and I'm joined, as usual, by my partner in crime, Mr. Bennett Tomlin. How are you today?

00:00:12:12 - 00:00:15:19
Bennett Tomlin
I'm glad to be talking to you right now. How are you, Cas?

00:00:15:21 - 00:00:24:11
Cas Piancey
Same. I'm glad to be talking to you. I have a lot of crazy thoughts swirling around in my head, and I need to spew them out to somebody, maybe even 30,000 people. So let's go ahead and do it.

00:00:24:11 - 00:00:25:20
Cas Piancey
Today we're going to be talking about what's.

00:00:25:20 - 00:00:26:15
Cas Piancey
Called the.

00:00:26:15 - 00:00:28:08
Cas Piancey
Realization and Tesla.

00:00:28:08 - 00:00:29:06
Cas Piancey
IQ people.

00:00:29:12 - 00:00:38:17
Cas Piancey
And, Elon Musk haters know exactly what we're talking about. Everyone else probably doesn't. And I think a lot of our listeners probably aren't Elon Musk haters or Tesla.

00:00:38:18 - 00:00:42:20
Cas Piancey
Q individuals. So what is the realization?

00:00:42:20 - 00:00:50:15
Cas Piancey
Well, the realization is when Elon Musk eventually decides to wade in and tell you.

00:00:50:15 - 00:00:53:16
Cas Piancey
His expertise in your area of expertise.

00:00:53:16 - 00:00:59:10
Cas Piancey
Whatever it may be, you will soon come to the conclusion that Elon Musk doesn't know.

00:00:59:10 - 00:01:00:13
Cas Piancey
What the fuck.

00:01:00:13 - 00:01:01:16
Cas Piancey
He's talking about.

00:01:01:16 - 00:01:02:18
Cas Piancey
and we wanted to.

00:01:02:18 - 00:01:04:07
Cas Piancey
Talk about ours, so,

00:01:04:09 - 00:01:09:14
Cas Piancey
Not like usual. I'm actually going to start this one, and I'm just going to talk about my realization very quickly.

00:01:09:14 - 00:01:16:08
Cas Piancey
So my realization happened in 2018. I had long understood that,

00:01:16:08 - 00:01:19:07
Cas Piancey
Elon Musk.

00:01:19:09 - 00:01:19:22
Cas Piancey
Like he had.

00:01:19:22 - 00:01:22:04
Cas Piancey
Always sounded like an idealist to me.

00:01:22:06 - 00:01:24:03
Cas Piancey
And Tesla obviously had.

00:01:24:03 - 00:01:25:12
Cas Piancey
All kinds of.

00:01:25:14 - 00:01:26:14
Cas Piancey
Issues.

00:01:26:16 - 00:01:29:01
Cas Piancey
When it came to, you know.

00:01:29:03 - 00:01:30:20
Cas Piancey
Like the viability of their.

00:01:30:20 - 00:01:32:16
Cas Piancey
Business, I guess, is what I'll say.

00:01:32:16 - 00:01:37:15
Cas Piancey
But I always thought, okay, well, Elon Musk isn't necessarily a fraudster or thief.

00:01:37:15 - 00:01:46:14
Cas Piancey
But one day he was talking about his tunnels. And I like the idea of, like, making a faster, more affordable tunnel. The idea is. Sounds good.

00:01:46:14 - 00:01:48:16
Cas Piancey
If you don't know anything about.

00:01:48:18 - 00:01:49:05
Cas Piancey
How to do.

00:01:49:05 - 00:01:56:18
Cas Piancey
Tunneling. So it sounded good to me. And then he went ahead and started on one of his tunnel.

00:01:56:18 - 00:01:57:23
Cas Piancey
Projects, the.

00:01:57:23 - 00:02:00:10
Cas Piancey
Tunnels in Las Vegas. And I was like, oh, good.

00:02:00:10 - 00:02:01:18
Cas Piancey
Great. This will be good for Las Vegas.

00:02:01:18 - 00:02:08:19
Cas Piancey
Let's see what happens. And he also started a pilot program in Los Angeles, where I lived at the time. And.

00:02:08:19 - 00:02:10:02
Cas Piancey
He.

00:02:10:04 - 00:02:15:06
Cas Piancey
Posted one day later after saying this was going to be mass transit and a great essentially like.

00:02:15:06 - 00:02:17:18
Cas Piancey
A subway. He posted, like, look at the Tesla.

00:02:17:18 - 00:02:23:10
Cas Piancey
Tunnels in Las Vegas. And the Tesla tunnels.

00:02:23:12 - 00:02:24:05
Cas Piancey
Which it.

00:02:24:05 - 00:02:29:01
Cas Piancey
Became clear were were called Tesla tunnels because they only.

00:02:29:03 - 00:02:33:04
Cas Piancey
Were for Teslas. This was you drive your vehicle.

00:02:33:04 - 00:02:52:05
Cas Piancey
Into this tunnel, you go around whatever traffic there may be in town, and you arrive at your location. So I said, why have affordable mass transit when you can provide private tunnels for expensive vehicles? Because I think anyone with a brain, you don't have to know a lot about public transportation to be.

00:02:52:05 - 00:02:52:21
Cas Piancey
Like, oh.

00:02:52:23 - 00:03:02:02
Cas Piancey
This is not mass transit. And he responded to me and said, not exactly. I'm going to be nice to him and just think he missed a phrase here.

00:03:02:02 - 00:03:02:15
Cas Piancey
He said.

00:03:02:17 - 00:03:08:19
Cas Piancey
This is affordable mass transit, but better in that it takes you where and when you want to go.

00:03:08:19 - 00:03:10:11
Cas Piancey
It is not mass transit.

00:03:10:13 - 00:03:11:14
Cas Piancey
It is private.

00:03:11:14 - 00:03:17:12
Cas Piancey
Cars for private tunnels. And that's when I realized he was the monorail guy from The Simpsons. And that he.

00:03:17:12 - 00:03:18:09
Cas Piancey
Was screwing.

00:03:18:09 - 00:03:23:01
Cas Piancey
Everyone over. So that was my realization moment. Bennett, what was your realization moment?

00:03:23:01 - 00:03:37:02
Bennett Tomlin
So I remember back in 2016 when, like, the Painted Black video came out, I was legitimately excited about, like, Tesla and self-driving and things like that. I was admittedly young. I was 20 or whatever.

00:03:37:02 - 00:03:38:02
Cas Piancey
More than I can say.

00:03:38:02 - 00:04:08:21
Bennett Tomlin
Then there was a series of things that happened over several years that rapidly moved me from that position. One of the first things I remember is in 2017, again related to his mass transit projects. He pretended he was bidding for some project in Chicago that was going to run from, like, The loop to O'Hare in some freakishly short time, and he said he could build it for like less than one tenth the cost of what anyone else could estimate.

00:04:08:23 - 00:04:29:05
Bennett Tomlin
For a project like that. And I'm like, oh, this guy is not actually taking this seriously. And especially became clear he wasn't taking it seriously because it started as a Hyperloop and then became a loop that was going to use electric skates based on Tesla chassis. And then eventually, if this thing had ever actually happened, it would have devolved into the Las Vegas tunnels.

00:04:29:05 - 00:04:29:15
Cas Piancey
Yeah.

00:04:29:15 - 00:04:57:05
Bennett Tomlin
Then in 2018, Elon Musk made an impractical vehicle for cave rescue and centered himself in the middle of an ongoing rescue mission. And upon the conclusion of that mission, decided to insult one of the people who had actually put their life on the line to effect the rescue.

00:04:57:05 - 00:04:57:16
Cas Piancey
Right.

00:04:57:16 - 00:05:04:16
Bennett Tomlin
I guess it wasn't a slanderous accusation, but it certainly sounded like one to those of us who were listening.

00:05:04:16 - 00:05:16:05
Bennett Tomlin
And so that really made me start to go, oh, this guy might also be a bad person. Like, he's not just lying or ambitious or idealistic or have, like, a bad view of these things. This might just be a really, really bad person.

00:05:16:05 - 00:05:17:11
Cas Piancey
be clear, I like.

00:05:17:12 - 00:05:19:16
Cas Piancey
I just want to make sure everyone is on the same page.

00:05:19:17 - 00:05:20:10
Cas Piancey
This is the.

00:05:20:10 - 00:05:21:09
Cas Piancey
Infamous Pedro.

00:05:21:09 - 00:05:23:07
Cas Piancey
Guy tweet, which is a cave.

00:05:23:07 - 00:05:31:19
Cas Piancey
Diver who was in Thailand and an expert in cave diving. Went to go save these children. Like or at least help. And Elon Musk had.

00:05:31:19 - 00:05:33:21
Cas Piancey
Proposed a very stupid, like.

00:05:33:21 - 00:05:36:11
Cas Piancey
Solution. And so he was an angry little troll.

00:05:36:11 - 00:06:14:00
Bennett Tomlin
And then the moment that convinced me Elon Musk was going to be one of the arch villains of the like era of late stage capitalism we’re in was 2019 Autonomy Day, which is when Elon Musk announced the, robotaxi network. I've done a video on this before, but this was where he promised if you bought a $35,000 car that in two years was going to cost $25,000, you could make $30, $30,000 in profit from operating it while you were sleeping.

00:06:14:02 - 00:06:45:20
Bennett Tomlin
And like the implied returns from this type of project were larger than Madoff's Ponzi were larger than Charles's Ponzi’s Original Ponzi were like bigger than any other fraud I had ever looked at or considered. The scale of the lie was so massive I went, oh, this guy is going through the high score. Whenever the next crash is. He wants to be the guy who loses the most and causes the most devastation.

00:06:45:21 - 00:07:01:08
Bennett Tomlin
And like so 2019 Autonomy Day is the day where I became radically like anti Elon because I'm like, this guy will say or do anything if he thinks it'll help him. And then since then it's gotten just worse.

00:07:01:11 - 00:07:15:12
Cas Piancey
Oh, yeah. Snowballing for sure. Snowballing. I mean, he always has something to say about the media and journalists. Something that you and I both know at least something about. And he clearly doesn't understand any of that. He certainly doesn't understand social media. I think that's been proven by how.

00:07:15:12 - 00:07:17:09
Cas Piancey
He's treated his Twitter.

00:07:17:09 - 00:07:18:07
Cas Piancey
Acquisition.

00:07:18:07 - 00:07:22:12
Cas Piancey
I also want to just give honorable mentions here while we're discussing this, because.

00:07:22:12 - 00:07:25:20
Cas Piancey
These are individuals we follow who.

00:07:25:22 - 00:07:29:08
Cas Piancey
And and one of them even a guest. But yeah, these are individuals.

00:07:29:08 - 00:07:31:04
Cas Piancey
We follow who have who have exposed.

00:07:31:04 - 00:07:31:19
Cas Piancey
Elon,

00:07:31:19 - 00:07:35:14
Cas Piancey
and have been doing it since they came to this realization. And that's, Eric.

00:07:35:14 - 00:07:36:12
Cas Piancey
Roesch who we've.

00:07:36:12 - 00:07:42:11
Cas Piancey
Had on as a guest to talk about Elon's rockets and.

00:07:42:13 - 00:07:45:15
Cas Piancey
How SpaceX is just.

00:07:45:15 - 00:07:46:18
Cas Piancey
Treated different than

00:07:47:00 - 00:07:59:05
Bennett Tomlin
Well. And specifically, if you fail to enforce the regulations against Elon, all you do is you let Elon keep growing more and more powerful until eventually he kills all regulations.

00:07:59:07 - 00:07:59:20
Cas Piancey
Yep.

00:07:59:20 - 00:08:03:01
Bennett Tomlin
That was the thesis of that episode from, like, a year ago.

00:08:03:01 - 00:08:05:22
Cas Piancey
Right. And it yeah, it has proven to be.

00:08:06:00 - 00:08:07:01
Cas Piancey
Quite accurate,

00:08:07:01 - 00:08:09:13
Cas Piancey
and then we have, Neidermeyer Eric Neidermeyer.

00:08:09:13 - 00:08:11:01
Cas Piancey
Who, I believe his.

00:08:11:01 - 00:08:14:03
Cas Piancey
Realization was regarding charging stations

00:08:14:05 - 00:08:37:09
Bennett Tomlin
Battery swaps. Elon Tesla qualified for a bunch of, extra subsidies by advertising that they were going to do this new battery swap thing where you would pull up and in like, 3 minutes or 5 minutes or something, was like the promise they would take the entire battery out of your Tesla, put another one in, and you would be able to drive away.

00:08:37:11 - 00:09:00:15
Bennett Tomlin
And there was only ever like one station and it only ever processed like 1 or 2 cars or something ridiculous, because obviously it wasn't, like, economical or practical to take, like, you don't do an engine swap when you run out of gasoline. And like I understand the batteries are not the engine, but like, they're this major component of the car, the batteries are like the largest, most expensive part of the electric vehicle.

00:09:00:15 - 00:09:03:15
Cas Piancey
And to be clear, China has actually implemented stuff like this.

00:09:03:15 - 00:09:04:09
Cas Piancey
Like they have

00:09:04:09 - 00:09:15:23
Bennett Tomlin
For for smaller electric vehicles, like, not with the same kind, capacity as Teslas and without the batteries being integrated into the body in quite the same way that like the Model S's were at that point.

00:09:15:23 - 00:09:20:17
Cas Piancey
God forbid. America pushes for smaller electric vehicles that have good.

00:09:20:17 - 00:09:21:20
Cas Piancey
Range and.

00:09:21:20 - 00:09:23:22
Cas Piancey
Capabilities. God forbid we were.

00:09:23:22 - 00:09:30:00
Cas Piancey
To ever do something like that. Anyway. So so yes, China has implemented that. Obviously Elon never could.

00:09:30:00 - 00:09:31:09
Cas Piancey
Possibly do that. Then the.

00:09:31:09 - 00:09:34:21
Cas Piancey
Last one I want to talk about, I think, is the one most people are probably familiar.

00:09:34:21 - 00:09:35:10
Cas Piancey
With because it.

00:09:35:10 - 00:09:41:06
Cas Piancey
Is the most recent, I believe. I mean, outside of him completely immolating the government.

00:09:41:06 - 00:09:41:17
Cas Piancey
But that.

00:09:41:17 - 00:09:42:12
Cas Piancey
Is something far.

00:09:42:12 - 00:09:44:13
Cas Piancey
Sillier and stupider, which.

00:09:44:13 - 00:09:55:06
Cas Piancey
Is, Quinn69TV We'll we'll link to the video, in the, notes in the show notes. But Quinn69TV.

00:09:55:11 - 00:09:57:11
Cas Piancey
A YouTuber, exposed.

00:09:57:13 - 00:09:58:22
Cas Piancey
Elon Musk because.

00:09:58:22 - 00:10:00:06
Cas Piancey
He is a.

00:10:01:18 - 00:10:06:18
Cas Piancey
Quinn is a player a path path of exile to.

00:10:07:09 - 00:10:08:03
Cas Piancey
And

00:10:08:03 - 00:10:09:14
Cas Piancey
he just.

00:10:09:16 - 00:10:15:10
Cas Piancey
Elon Musk streamed it and it was so obvious to him to, Quinn that Elon Musk.

00:10:15:10 - 00:10:19:12
Cas Piancey
Was cheating, was boosting his character with other players, that he had barely.

00:10:19:12 - 00:10:20:11
Cas Piancey
Played the game at all.

00:10:20:11 - 00:10:21:10
Cas Piancey
But here he was.

00:10:21:13 - 00:10:29:14
Cas Piancey
Trying to show gamers that, no, I am. I'm not only am I a gamer, I'm a pro gamer. I could be doing this if I wanted to be.

00:10:29:15 - 00:10:32:17
Cas Piancey
Which is absolute trite fucking nonsense.

00:10:32:17 - 00:10:40:15
Cas Piancey
Like the amount of hours he would have to put into, is it passive exile? A path, path of exile, path of exile to,

00:10:40:15 - 00:10:42:03
Cas Piancey
Is that he would.

00:10:42:03 - 00:10:51:02
Cas Piancey
Have to be devoting hundreds of hours. And then he ultimately admitted that he had not done this. So, Yeah, that and that is a, your account gets banned for that on Path of.

00:10:51:02 - 00:10:54:03
Cas Piancey
Exile, too. So it was it was clear that he was a liar.

00:10:54:03 - 00:10:57:20
Cas Piancey
And a cheater, and he got exposed just yet again.

00:10:57:20 - 00:11:37:20
Bennett Tomlin
And I think the other moment, though I hope people in the comments put their own individual moments. But I think the other thing that a lot of people saw was when he started talking about, like, the software architecture of Twitter was a big one for a lot of people because there were a lot of like software engineers and coders who had generically good opinions about Elon broadly, just because of where they existed in the type of work they did, and then suddenly saw him saying nonsense about how the technical systems function well, claiming like he was going to improve it by taking steps, they knew would make it worse and like

00:11:37:20 - 00:11:41:09
Bennett Tomlin
Elon's real skills are.

00:11:41:09 - 00:11:54:17
Bennett Tomlin
Creating a narrative around a futuristic sounding technology so he can raise money and manipulating people so they don't realize that that's all he's doing.

00:11:54:17 - 00:11:58:14
Cas Piancey
I want to. Before we go, I just want to read one last thing.

00:11:58:14 - 00:12:13:09
Cas Piancey
friend of ours, linked me to a Bonhoeffer essay, and I just want to share this with. With our audience. It's called on stupidity. And I think it's really an important essay. I urge everyone to read it, and I'm just going to read.

00:12:13:09 - 00:12:14:15
Cas Piancey
From it really quickly.

00:12:14:21 - 00:12:22:20
Cas Piancey
Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil. It can be exposed and if need be, prevented by.

00:12:22:20 - 00:12:24:23
Cas Piancey
Use of force. Evil always.

00:12:24:23 - 00:12:32:11
Cas Piancey
Carries within itself the germ of its own subversion, and that it leaves behind, in human beings at least a sense of unease against.

00:12:32:11 - 00:12:33:14
Cas Piancey
Stupidity. We are.

00:12:33:14 - 00:12:50:07
Cas Piancey
Defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here. Reason's fall on deaf ears. Facts that contradict one's prejudgment simply need not be believed. In such moments, the stupid person even becomes critical. And when facts are irrefutable.

00:12:50:08 - 00:12:51:02
Cas Piancey
They are just pushed.

00:12:51:02 - 00:12:58:00
Cas Piancey
Aside, as inconsequential as incidental. In all this, the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one.

00:12:58:02 - 00:12:59:19
Cas Piancey
Is utterly self-satisfied.

00:12:59:22 - 00:13:03:22
Cas Piancey
And being easily irritated becomes dangerous by going on the attack

00:13:03:22 - 00:13:13:20
Cas Piancey
For that reason, greater caution is called for than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.

00:13:13:20 - 00:13:19:01
Cas Piancey
There's a lot more to that essay, and a lot of it makes what Elon is doing make a lot of sense.

00:13:19:01 - 00:13:26:03
Cas Piancey
So I just want everyone to go ahead and check that out if you have an opportunity. And while you're there, we'll drop a link for CasCoin.

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