Episode 82 – NFTs, Frauds, and Algorithmic Stablecoins (Feat. Mark Cuban)

NFTs, Frauds, and Algorithmic Stablecoins (Feat. Mark Cuban) Crypto Critics' Corner

Bennett Tomlin and Cas Piancey are joined by entrepreneur and owner of the Dallas Mavericks, Mark Cuban, to discuss NFTs, the proliferations of fraud, and whether or not algorithmic stablecoins are viable. Follow Mark on Twitter @mcuban. This episode was recorded on Tuesday, June 7th, 2022, and produced by Asher Hirsch.

In this episode Bennett Tomlin and Cas Piancey are joined by James Seyffart to discuss what has prevented a spot Bitcoin ETF and why there might finally be one coming soon.

This episode was recorded on June 7th, 2022.

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English Transcript:

00;00;05;04 - 00;00;18;27
Cas Piancey
Welcome back, everyone. I am Cas Piancey, and I'm joined, as usual, by my partner in crime, Mr. Bennett Tomlin. Wow. I screwed that up. But we have a special guest today. And to be honest, I'm just going to defer to Bennett so that he can introduce our guest.

00;00;19;13 - 00;00;29;03
Bennett Tomlin
Today, we are joined by owner of the Dallas Mavericks and the favorite shark for our producer from his favorite TV show, Shark Tank, Mark Cuban. How are you doing?

00;00;29;16 - 00;00;30;17
Mark Cuban
I'm great. Bennett, how are you?

00;00;31;00 - 00;00;54;16
Bennett Tomlin
I'm doing quite well. So I think to start, both Cas and I are actually huge fans. And one of the things we bonded over was actually a movie you produced called The China Hustle. Yeah. And I mentioned this once on Twitter, and then you pointed out to me that you also ran another website called Share Sluice that does investigations into a bunch of different companies possibly committing frauds.

00;00;55;01 - 00;01;01;19
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. So can you talk to us a little bit about how you got interested in those types of frauds and how you think about shorting?

00;01;01;21 - 00;01;22;07
Mark Cuban
So let's start with Share Sleuth. You know, for every hundred or 1500, whatever the number is, good companies, there's always going to be a scam. Always. You know, why did we Willy Killer know that's not who it was? Why did they? Why do people rob banks? That's where the money is. Why do people have scam companies that go public?

00;01;22;07 - 00;01;53;24
Mark Cuban
That's where the money is. And so there just wasn't anybody who I thought was doing a good job. One and two was an opportunity for me to make money. Most investors just don't do the work when it comes to investing questionable companies You know, there was one of the companies we did originally, and I'm spacing the exact name of it, but effectively they were a company that was coming up with some new energy whatever, and they had this big plan and they were that they announced and the stock would go up.

00;01;54;03 - 00;02;12;28
Mark Cuban
Then they do another press release and the stock would go up. This is around the 2006-2007 timeframe. And so what, Chris, who does all this work for me did was he sent somebody, called somebody locally and said, Go look at the plant, see if their lights are on. There were no cars in the parking lot in the middle of a Monday afternoon or whatever.

00;02;13;08 - 00;02;33;03
Mark Cuban
There were no lights on. He called the utility company to check to see if there were any utilities turned up. No. So he wrote about it. I shorted the stock and we've been doing that for the last five or six years. And, you know, shorted there's a bunch of different reasons to short a stock. One is you think about valuation.

00;02;33;06 - 00;02;49;10
Mark Cuban
I usually don't short based off of value or I haven't in years and years and years because you don't know what the market's going to do. But then there are companies that are just outright scams, you know, or they're run by people that have bounced from scam to scam to scam or they are run by people who.

00;02;50;08 - 00;02;51;06
Mark Cuban
Are really good at.

00;02;51;06 - 00;02;56;19
Mark Cuban
Pumping up stocks and allowing somebody else to dump those stocks. And Chris, has done an.

00;02;56;19 - 00;02;57;19
Mark Cuban
Amazing job of.

00;02;57;19 - 00;03;13;00
Mark Cuban
Defining those networks, and that gives him a big advantage. And I disclose when I have whatever position I have, if any, in the stock. So, you know, there's just not enough money there to make it worthwhile. But we'll publish in any ways to try to protect investors, you know, so that's why we did it.

00;03;13;13 - 00;03;43;13
Cas Piancey
My question is, you like you said, you've been doing that for five or six years now. So I guess I'm wondering it must it must have proven repeatedly to have been profitable for you, for you to continue to do it, right? Yup. OK. OK. Yeah. I'm wondering if you think about share sleuth it like if these tips and tricks and all this stuff, if you think about it similarly to the China Hustle, where like you could build stories about it the same way that you did about the China Hustle or did you or is that just set up?

00;03;43;16 - 00;03;45;22
Mark Cuban
Not not wholly different. Totally different.

00;03;45;22 - 00;03;49;22
Mark Cuban
No connection at all, actually. I did try to hustle more to embarrass the S.E.C..

00;03;50;26 - 00;03;59;12
Mark Cuban
Because there are all these mergers that you could even audit their books. Right. You know, so I would give the.

00;03;59;12 - 00;04;20;05
Mark Cuban
Sexy shit for four years now, and it's the most obvious hustle ever that they're just now starting to address and they still haven't fully addressed it. You can be a public company and your books not be audited. And there's no way for investors to even find out what your actual PNL or balance sheets.

00;04;20;07 - 00;04;25;28
Mark Cuban
And and that's fucked up, you know, and I remember probably five.

00;04;25;28 - 00;04;28;05
Mark Cuban
Or six years ago, right before we did China, I thought.

00;04;28;17 - 00;04;30;14
Mark Cuban
Talking to Jim Cramer on CNBC.

00;04;30;14 - 00;04;45;03
Mark Cuban
And I said, you know, at the time for there was a 4 trillion out of 15 trillion in market cap were Chinese related companies, Alibaba, et cetera. And I'm like, Jim, there's no audited financials that anybody can trust.

00;04;45;12 - 00;04;46;15
Mark Cuban
And, you know, the.

00;04;46;15 - 00;05;00;27
Mark Cuban
Government of China could just say and tell them, you know, to do whatever they want them to do. And, you know, why are we allowing these stocks to be traded in, you know, on our big exchanges at all? China didn't like it. The SEC didn't like it.

00;05;01;06 - 00;05;03;22
Mark Cuban
But it was a fact. But I did do it you.

00;05;03;22 - 00;05;06;07
Mark Cuban
Know, I did it really just to embarrass the SEC.

00;05;06;08 - 00;05;09;10
Mark Cuban
Because I was fighting them at the time. And it was just ridiculous, the.

00;05;09;10 - 00;05;18;29
Mark Cuban
Hypocrisy and the irony of it all. And to this day now, at least they're starting to try to address it. But the concept that you can be a multibillion.

00;05;19;09 - 00;05;19;24
Mark Cuban
Hundreds of.

00;05;19;24 - 00;05;30;13
Mark Cuban
Billions, whatever it may be, valuation, stock, on a major exchange in this country. And you don't you can't really test or trust the financials.

00;05;30;28 - 00;05;32;19
Mark Cuban
That's the definition of insanity.

00;05;32;21 - 00;05;41;03
Bennett Tomlin
So do you see any similarities between those Chinese reverse mergers and some of the multibillion dollar SPAC deals we've seen in the last year or two go public?

00;05;41;16 - 00;05;43;16
Mark Cuban
No, no. They're different you know, and I got.

00;05;43;17 - 00;05;47;10
Mark Cuban
Offered to do a lot of SPACs and just refused to do it.

00;05;48;20 - 00;05;49;13
Mark Cuban
For a lot of reasons.

00;05;49;13 - 00;05;50;16
Mark Cuban
There's a difference between.

00;05;50;24 - 00;05;52;02
Mark Cuban
The vig that a.

00;05;52;03 - 00;06;06;11
Mark Cuban
SPAC allows the creators and the initial investors to to gain versus having zero transparency. It may not be great economics for investors with respect, but at the same time, it's transparent.

00;06;06;26 - 00;06;08;25
Mark Cuban
And as long as you have the transparency.

00;06;09;06 - 00;06;10;21
Mark Cuban
You know, I think that that's what you need.

00;06;10;24 - 00;06;15;03
Bennett Tomlin
Can't SPACs go public without audited financials? Though, in the same way that a reverse merger can.

00;06;15;09 - 00;06;17;09
Mark Cuban
Spark a stealth campaign that emerge in the.

00;06;17;09 - 00;06;19;14
Mark Cuban
Company? And then at that point, you've got to get audited.

00;06;19;21 - 00;06;25;01
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For your initial year's filings. But you're still trading yeah.

00;06;25;12 - 00;06;27;03
Mark Cuban
Promises anything and everything.

00;06;28;00 - 00;06;29;00
Mark Cuban
But that's the ultimate.

00;06;29;00 - 00;06;43;22
Mark Cuban
Speculation because there's no company for you to to to examine at that point in time. And you're trusting the people putting together the SPAC. So, you know, that's just like hiring an advisor and you're giving them money and saying OK, go invest. That's a.

00;06;44;19 - 00;06;46;24
Mark Cuban
VC fund. Same type of thing, right?

00;06;46;24 - 00;06;47;27
Mark Cuban
You don't know until you know.

00;06;48;02 - 00;07;05;16
Cas Piancey
Well, this this is a good point I'd like to make about this now that you've brought this up. Is that I'm wondering, you're saying, well, at least the SEC is starting to do some of this stuff now. Do you just mean in regard to China? Because I think China OK, because then and I feel very frustrated with the way the SEC operates.

00;07;05;16 - 00;07;11;18
Cas Piancey
I think it's a lot of hypocrisy like you're talking about where if you have big pockets and you.

00;07;13;02 - 00;07;14;07
Mark Cuban
Just simplify all of.

00;07;14;07 - 00;07;27;05
Mark Cuban
It. Right. There are companies that trade on exchanges, major exchanges. And we can argue and the SEC who argue what they do or don't do and whether it is what what what value there is.

00;07;27;14 - 00;07;28;25
Mark Cuban
Then there's the bulletin.

00;07;28;25 - 00;07;34;19
Mark Cuban
Board, pink sheets and oats. These stocks that all get traded where anything goes.

00;07;34;27 - 00;07;41;13
Mark Cuban
And that analogy I use for crypto, right? Because it's like you think stocks are safe.

00;07;41;22 - 00;08;09;19
Mark Cuban
You know, once you I don't even know the number of publicly traded stocks now because so many went public, let's just say it's 6000. Right. I'm betting there are far more pink sheets OTC bulletin board stocks that trade and it's ridiculous that there is no oversight other than basic reporting requirements. At best. Now you know it's harder to find pricing and everything, but that's all the more reason when there's horrible price discovery, there's more opportunity for fraud.

00;08;10;05 - 00;08;11;28
Mark Cuban
To bankrupt companies trade.

00;08;12;06 - 00;08;15;00
Mark Cuban
And they trade millions and billions of shares.

00;08;15;12 - 00;08;17;12
Mark Cuban
It's insane. You know, I've said this for.

00;08;17;12 - 00;08;37;02
Mark Cuban
Years since I started battling the SEC at the SEC. You truly wanted to protect investors. They'd go through a process of making everything they do. Bright line. There are no bright line regulations, you know, there. The SEC is made up made up of mostly attorneys because that's how they want to approach things. You know, they want to litigate, to regulate.

00;08;37;14 - 00;08;39;23
Mark Cuban
And to me, that's just wrong.

00;08;40;00 - 00;08;40;24
Mark Cuban
On a thousand.

00;08;40;24 - 00;08;44;23
Mark Cuban
Levels in, you know, further furthering the hypocrisy. Hypocrisy, you know, the SEC.

00;08;44;23 - 00;08;46;00
Mark Cuban
Talked about wanting to protect.

00;08;46;00 - 00;09;07;12
Mark Cuban
Our markets. Well, if you look at things like insider trading as it applies to other other countries. Right. And other markets where they don't have an SEC equivalent or it operates, you know, with one 10th of the intent of the SEC. Yet there are funds for those company countries that traded on.

00;09;07;28 - 00;09;08;01
Mark Cuban
The.

00;09;08;01 - 00;09;09;10
Bennett Tomlin
Major exchanges.

00;09;09;20 - 00;09;10;08
Mark Cuban
You know.

00;09;10;15 - 00;09;11;23
Mark Cuban
Develop marketing funds.

00;09;11;23 - 00;09;18;26
Mark Cuban
So, you know, pick a country that has a developing stock market and there's an ETF or something for it.

00;09;19;03 - 00;09;21;08
Mark Cuban
And so the SEC approves.

00;09;21;08 - 00;09;30;24
Mark Cuban
An ETF to invest in companies that have no audit standards whatsoever and no oversight and allows any Tom, Dick and Harry investor to invest in that.

00;09;31;15 - 00;09;33;09
Bennett Tomlin
It's insane. It is.

00;09;33;09 - 00;09;34;28
Mark Cuban
Absolutely insane.

00;09;35;19 - 00;09;38;27
Mark Cuban
The job of the the SEC doesn't look at their job to proactively.

00;09;38;27 - 00;09;42;00
Mark Cuban
Invest, protect investors. They're completely reactive.

00;09;42;04 - 00;10;02;09
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, that was there was a point we talked about with Jim Chanos when he came on our show last week where he was talking about how short sellers are really the only ones with an active incentive to go out and try to identify frauds because they can make money from it and that the regulators really only come in afterwards and document what the fraud was.

00;10;02;14 - 00;10;02;22
Mark Cuban
Yeah.

00;10;02;22 - 00;10;19;12
Mark Cuban
And, you know, there's whistleblower things with the SEC and, you know, shares that we've applied many times for whistleblower reimbursements because we found many things and they're like, well, no, you put it online first. You got to tell us all these different excuses, right? And it's just obviously they don't want to write a check to me, you know?

00;10;19;13 - 00;10;21;23
Mark Cuban
And so I get that and I'm.

00;10;21;23 - 00;10;25;26
Mark Cuban
Fine with it. But yeah, the hypocrisy runs deep in the SEC.

00;10;27;01 - 00;10;59;07
Cas Piancey
Well, this this transitions us to, I think, well to our next topic, which you were famously invested in Iron and Titan which was an algorithmic stable coin that collapsed. We recently had another collapse of a major algorithmic stable coin, U.S. t Terra Terra Luna system. I'm wondering how you feel about the future of algorithmic, stable coins and whether or not you think they're worth investing in now.

00;10;59;13 - 00;11;00;08
Mark Cuban
OK, so there's two.

00;11;00;08 - 00;11;25;27
Mark Cuban
Parts to that question. One, I didn't get hit nearly as bad as people thought I did on Titan, and I made a lot of the money back being an LP. But it was still. It was still. However, it played out, depending on who you talk to. What it taught me was, you know, marketing matters in crypto and when you add the word stable to anything particularly stable coin, it's a misnomer when it's applied to algorithmic, stable coins.

00;11;26;06 - 00;11;31;24
Mark Cuban
So I said at that point in time, having been burned and learned, that's a new crypto that burned and learned.

00;11;32;18 - 00;11;38;19
Mark Cuban
I'm going to I'm going to trademark that burned and learn but haven't been burned and learn.

00;11;39;29 - 00;12;03;21
Mark Cuban
It became you start digging in more, right? It's just like when a stock collapses and you realize why collapse and you try to not repeat that mistake. It became obvious that, you know, you can it be you can define or create algorithms that have any different type of output. But when you call it stable, particularly within the crypto market, then people associate it with it with stability.

00;12;04;06 - 00;12;26;15
Mark Cuban
And that's what have to change has changed. You can call somebody analogous, something algorithmic token and have it be a function of any number of other inputs. Great. Have had it right, because there are other tokens that are some percentage of the LPI fees, you know, and in some respects that's an algorithmic token in and of itself. Right?

00;12;26;25 - 00;12;59;01
Mark Cuban
And so you can have you can algorithmic away just don't call it stable and for stable coins, it should have a pick where it's auditable, definable and trackable. And I'm fine with the concept of stable coins, but you know, there's, you know, and it's not that you couldn't have an algorithmic stable coin that's pegged to the dollar and invest in treasuries and you get an additional .01 percent of the Treasury return for interest rates.

00;12;59;01 - 00;13;20;02
Mark Cuban
Right. And that in and of itself might be algorithmic and may or may be they invest that you know, 10% of the interest rate they earned and lunar. Right. And you get those lunar tokens and that makes it algorithmic. If the point that you have to have it stable, if you're going to use the word stable, there has to be a definable audible traceable pick.

00;13;20;14 - 00;13;22;04
Mark Cuban
And that just is not.

00;13;22;04 - 00;13;25;11
Mark Cuban
The case with all the algorithm Bitcoins that are out there now.

00;13;25;25 - 00;13;38;00
Bennett Tomlin
When you've talked about like the appropriate regulations for crypto before, you've suggested that you think stable coins are likely to be the first thing to be regulated because they represent this huge pool of effectively U.S. dollars.

00;13;39;06 - 00;13;41;11
Mark Cuban
Where it's not even that they're what they.

00;13;41;11 - 00;13;43;18
Mark Cuban
Represent. It's just a misnomer That's it.

00;13;44;06 - 00;13;49;12
Mark Cuban
You know, if you call it quarters dollars, people are going to be misled.

00;13;50;08 - 00;14;05;27
Cas Piancey
Yeah. I guess now that you now that you say that I'm like reflecting on how we have money market funds. And while they might be set to a dollar for each, you know, share or whatever it's called a money market fund, it's not called a U.S. dollar derivative or something like they they don't call it what it isn't.

00;14;06;13 - 00;14;07;27
Mark Cuban
There's been funds that have been pegged to.

00;14;07;27 - 00;14;15;17
Mark Cuban
The dollar that broke the dollar and people have been I don't know if anybody went to jail or not, but it wouldn't surprise me if somebody did.

00;14;16;04 - 00;14;18;02
Mark Cuban
You know, in 2008, a lot of that happened.

00;14;18;02 - 00;14;26;22
Mark Cuban
There's been other times when it happened. So it's not unique to crypto, but how you name something in this day and age matters.

00;14;27;07 - 00;14;28;23
Mark Cuban
And you just can't.

00;14;28;23 - 00;14;47;25
Mark Cuban
Call it stable that that's the whole thing. You know, you create an algorithm, make that algorithm a coin and call it algo coin and do whatever you want with it. You could be it could be Titan, the exact same way. It could be Terra and Luna relationship the exact same way. Boom. Then you just, you know, you plays the game, you take your chances.

00;14;48;24 - 00;15;09;24
Bennett Tomlin
So like in that vein, what I was trying to get at is and you suggested that the asset backed stable coins, the circle, the tether, the whatever they should be auditable, have their assets in a place where professionals can make sure they're there so that people know the dollar's worth a dollar. In the case of something like an algorithmic stable coin, you're suggesting that basically those shouldn't be marketed as stable coins?

00;15;10;06 - 00;15;16;09
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, what is the like how do you think about the regulatory framework that makes it so people can't call terror?

00;15;16;11 - 00;15;17;27
Mark Cuban
You pass a law saying.

00;15;18;07 - 00;15;33;27
Mark Cuban
That if you suggest that you are pegged to something and you try to reflect on a day to day basis a particular amount of some other type of asset, you have to be trackable, traceable, auditable.

00;15;34;19 - 00;15;40;20
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah. And so then just go after like criminally or civilly those who are violating that and that.

00;15;40;26 - 00;15;42;09
Mark Cuban
Because and plus the more, you know.

00;15;42;29 - 00;15;52;15
Mark Cuban
The industry, the crypto industry is evolving enough and maturing enough that it would self-regulate. But yeah, but only after the feds went after one, two, five people.

00;15;53;03 - 00;15;53;23
Mark Cuban
Whatever it may be.

00;15;53;24 - 00;16;01;25
Cas Piancey
Well, when you say it would self-regulate, like how do you does that just mean like, like short sellers like share like, like Jim Chanos.

00;16;02;09 - 00;16;02;22
Mark Cuban
You know.

00;16;02;22 - 00;16;25;03
Mark Cuban
With social media now there'd be enough of a groundswell of people who would call people out that are misleading investors because, you know, there is enough self interest in this industry. There's always scammers and, you know, any, any place where there's money, there's scammers, right? But there are enough people who want to see it succeed that they're going to they're going to help educate people.

00;16;25;09 - 00;16;29;28
Mark Cuban
And I think that's happening more and more as more people get burned and learn.

00;16;32;00 - 00;16;37;26
Mark Cuban
Like that more and more now. But but you get my point right. When I say self-regulate, I'm not saying don't.

00;16;37;26 - 00;16;54;18
Mark Cuban
Have any government intervention or regulation at all. But what I'm saying is you know, it's like insider trading. There is no real law and insider trading. But, you know, companies do training on what you should not do, you know, and people generally who trade stocks in any volume.

00;16;54;18 - 00;16;55;25
Mark Cuban
Understand generally.

00;16;55;29 - 00;16;56;28
Mark Cuban
What they can't do.

00;16;57;09 - 00;17;07;19
Bennett Tomlin
Mark, can you discuss what you think some what would be useful bright lines that could be passed that would help make crypto safer for the average investor who's interested in it?

00;17;07;20 - 00;17;08;15
Mark Cuban
You can't right now.

00;17;08;15 - 00;17;31;12
Mark Cuban
Other than the stable coin stuff, it's really really difficult because of social media. You know, it's not like it was 20 years ago even where even if you were trading online, you went through a some sort of trading company or broker or banker that had rules in place. And so, you know, it's really difficult because anybody can create a token.

00;17;31;27 - 00;17;42;29
Mark Cuban
And whether you want to define that token is as an equity that needs to be registered or not, you know, depending on what it does it's going to be really, really tough right now.

00;17;43;09 - 00;17;45;01
Mark Cuban
But it's no different than.

00;17;45;06 - 00;17;54;11
Mark Cuban
You know, an entrepreneur who comes on Shark Tank and has sold 100 shares of stock to all their friends and family. And then I destroy them because the company's a joke.

00;17;54;28 - 00;17;55;08
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah.

00;17;56;08 - 00;17;58;11
Mark Cuban
Any entrepreneur with any company.

00;17;58;11 - 00;18;04;15
Mark Cuban
That they want and self shares locally to friends and family, just like any token entrepreneur, can do the same thing.

00;18;05;15 - 00;18;26;16
Bennett Tomlin
OK, do you think something like you mentioned in the thread back in September of last year having some kind of proof of authorship and identity for like specific smart contracts and tokens where people are aware if there's changes to the token and Amex or the code or things like that. And that seemed to overlap pretty meaningfully with the token registration proposal.

00;18;26;22 - 00;18;36;06
Bennett Tomlin
That Sam Bankman-Fried proposed recently where to get listed on these exchanges, you would need to have a lot of that type of information. So is that kind of what you think of as a starting point?

00;18;36;06 - 00;18;38;13
Mark Cuban
I also said what we have because.

00;18;38;13 - 00;18;42;13
Mark Cuban
What I also said was it was analogous again to the stock market, right? Where there's going to.

00;18;42;13 - 00;18;43;15
Mark Cuban
Be different tiers and.

00;18;43;15 - 00;19;05;02
Mark Cuban
Different confidence levels. And so if you register, then you're going to be on the Nasdaq or, you know, the New York Stock Exchange, whatever it may be. And that will give a different level of confidence if you choose not to and you're just a private startup like everybody in their brother creating their own company, then that's your choice as well.

00;19;05;09 - 00;19;28;09
Mark Cuban
But you're not you know, if you know my 12 year old son Jay creates a company and sells shares of stock and somebody, you know, tries to sell those shares to somebody in New York. Right. There's no reason for them to have confidence in anything that that person trying to remarket those shares says. But if, you know, the equivalent would be for a token right?

00;19;28;09 - 00;19;53;06
Mark Cuban
So what's what's a recent token that came up that's relatively I don't know, you know, pick any one that now has, you know, a multibillion dollar market cap. If you want to have some confidence in that, that it's real, register it, make it auditable. Have you pay $10,000 or $20,000 in cash, not tokens, so that there's a third party that.

00;19;53;06 - 00;19;54;12
Mark Cuban
Works for this exchange.

00;19;54;20 - 00;19;59;10
Mark Cuban
That goes and does an in-depth audit so that there's some level of confidence.

00;19;59;19 - 00;20;13;18
Cas Piancey
Aren't there already auditors or at least security like like security auditors and stuff that are looking over these coins and and certifying them with their like security passing audits and I think one is called like Serta K or something like that.

00;20;13;27 - 00;20;15;17
Mark Cuban
And then there's is but the.

00;20;15;22 - 00;20;17;15
Mark Cuban
Point is we don't know which ones are the good ones.

00;20;17;25 - 00;20;27;10
Cas Piancey
And I was going to say that they often do these audits and then they say like, yeah, this thing is passed and it's fine. And then the coin utterly fails. And so it becomes a matter of like.

00;20;28;15 - 00;20;29;08
Mark Cuban
There's New York Stock.

00;20;29;08 - 00;20;34;04
Mark Cuban
Exchange, there's Nasdaq, and then there's everything else. Right, right. If you.

00;20;34;06 - 00;20;35;24
Mark Cuban
If you pay the listing fee.

00;20;36;04 - 00;20;51;26
Mark Cuban
And you pay the amount of money to get on the Nasdaq, you may not have 100% certainty that it's not a scam. But at least when it goes public or lists there's some level of confidence because of the amount of money that had to be paid to get that listing.

00;20;52;17 - 00;21;08;20
Bennett Tomlin
So you're seeing likely in the future kind of a splitting of the crypto market where the ones who have gone through this registration process, who have identified teams and have gone through the security audits are going to be listed on the top tier exchanges. There's going to be other tokens listed on offshore exchanges and exchanges that are difficult to regulate.

00;21;08;20 - 00;21;09;18
Bennett Tomlin
And then the remainder.

00;21;09;21 - 00;21;12;23
Mark Cuban
Right. The problem, though, is there's no exchange.

00;21;12;23 - 00;21;19;25
Mark Cuban
Like that exists. Right. Wants to be a buy nance wants to be it. Coinbase could have been it and they fucked it up. Right. So.

00;21;20;05 - 00;21;20;26
Mark Cuban
You know, there's a.

00;21;20;26 - 00;21;32;00
Mark Cuban
Lot of ways that it could have happened, but there's no direct path of least resistance. Right now. Somebody you know the top 20 market cap tokens should get together and set.

00;21;32;00 - 00;21;32;22
Mark Cuban
A very high.

00;21;32;22 - 00;21;34;25
Mark Cuban
Standard so that you know.

00;21;35;09 - 00;21;37;00
Mark Cuban
They take on, you know, and.

00;21;37;00 - 00;21;41;11
Mark Cuban
They all kick in and buy some insurance. Right. So there's no rug pull. You know, if there's a Red Bull.

00;21;41;18 - 00;21;42;18
Mark Cuban
Everybody gets reimbursed.

00;21;42;18 - 00;21;44;03
Mark Cuban
Whatever. It's going to add.

00;21;44;03 - 00;21;45;06
Mark Cuban
Significant expense.

00;21;45;15 - 00;21;47;17
Mark Cuban
But you know, that's just.

00;21;47;17 - 00;21;48;10
Mark Cuban
The price of.

00;21;48;10 - 00;21;50;26
Mark Cuban
Poker if we want to really get this to next level.

00;21;50;26 - 00;22;05;18
Bennett Tomlin
And like you made the analogy before, you end up kind of with like pancake swap, you know, swap the decks. This is kind of the pink sheets in the over-the-counter trades. And then the more regulated where the feds can exert more influence and the Nasdaq or Nasdaq equivalent.

00;22;06;01 - 00;22;09;13
Mark Cuban
Or and I mean, you know, Sam.

00;22;09;13 - 00;22;27;29
Mark Cuban
And CC and all those guys, whatever you think of them, they should be creating their own New York Stock Exchange where it's expensive to get on. It's completely transparent. You know, you eat your own dogfood. Everything is on a blockchain. You know, they hopefully use the Etherium or something that everybody can test.

00;22;27;29 - 00;22;28;27
Mark Cuban
Their all theory.

00;22;28;27 - 00;22;32;09
Mark Cuban
And based on that, they aren't. But since, you know, they all.

00;22;32;09 - 00;22;34;00
Mark Cuban
Can have one central point.

00;22;34;00 - 00;22;47;11
Mark Cuban
Of audit and make it expensive, don't make it cheap, make it $100,000 plus a year or $1,000,000 to sign up and cash 100,000 plus a year to to pay for all the audits so that there's some level of confidence.

00;22;47;24 - 00;22;49;03
Mark Cuban
Because the problem with crypto right now.

00;22;49;11 - 00;22;54;00
Mark Cuban
You know even though you know it has gone down and.

00;22;55;03 - 00;22;56;24
Mark Cuban
Finances and fraud.

00;22;56;24 - 00;23;00;29
Mark Cuban
You know it's like anything else there, you know you're a platform.

00;23;01;06 - 00;23;02;00
Mark Cuban
And there's going to be.

00;23;02;00 - 00;23;05;21
Mark Cuban
Fraud on the platform and it's going to there's going to be, you know.

00;23;06;06 - 00;23;09;29
Mark Cuban
Vulnerabilities that are exposed. It's just that just happens.

00;23;09;29 - 00;23;29;23
Mark Cuban
Just like I but you know, I remember back in the day there was one company media vision where they were I got crushed because it turns out they were shipping product that was bricks and boxes, you know, crypto isn't unique to scams. It's not. It's just that it's so much more in our face because of social media.

00;23;29;28 - 00;23;50;25
Cas Piancey
In this same vein, you're talking about, you know, regulation coming and separating cryptocurrencies, I think, and cryptocurrency exchanges, perhaps. But what about the NFT space, do you think? I know you're a big proponent of NFT. Is do you think that is going to go in a similar direction? I mean, we already have this. We have so many hacks.

00;23;50;25 - 00;24;01;18
Cas Piancey
We have so many lost, you know, board apes or, you know, crypto punks, you name it. Right. Do you see a similar kind of thing happening or what? What do you.

00;24;01;18 - 00;24;03;02
Mark Cuban
Think the big deal people are.

00;24;03;02 - 00;24;03;25
Mark Cuban
Making out? Look.

00;24;04;13 - 00;24;05;22
Mark Cuban
Big companies are getting hit by.

00;24;05;22 - 00;24;14;08
Mark Cuban
Ransomware and getting fucked. Right. And that's just based on phishing. That's it. Somebody in the accounts payable department clicked on the.

00;24;14;08 - 00;24;15;13
Mark Cuban
Wrong email link.

00;24;15;21 - 00;24;20;25
Mark Cuban
And that opened up the door for somebody to insert ransomware and that this hospital.

00;24;20;25 - 00;24;24;12
Mark Cuban
Or that hospital is shit out of luck. Companies are getting sent.

00;24;24;12 - 00;24;25;09
Mark Cuban
Invoices.

00;24;25;17 - 00;24;26;21
Mark Cuban
That aren't real.

00;24;26;29 - 00;24;51;09
Mark Cuban
And they get paid because somebody in accounts payable didn't really know what they were looking at. They're, you know, phishing opens up doors to scams, whether you're NAFTA, whether you're the payable department, whether it's an open door for ransomware. So that's not unique. The bigger issue with NAFTA is we're going through, you know, Warren Buffett has this great saying, first there's the innovators, then there's the imitators, then there's the idiots.

00;24;51;17 - 00;25;23;25
Mark Cuban
Right? We we're going we're evolving from the imitator phase where every blockchain, our level two has got to have an NFT platform, right? And in order to drive volume and activity to that platform, they create all of these different types of incentives and bring people in. And that's created a distortion in the NFT world, where you've got basically the same businesses being operated, not just not Theory Em or Polygon, but on finance on all of them.

00;25;23;25 - 00;25;48;13
Mark Cuban
Right. And and you know add lazy dot com and you can check out my entities at lazy dot com slash. I'm Cuban you know we we present NAFTA on a lot of different platforms. But NAFTA is just collectibles in the way we're talking about them right now. And whether you know, there are good investment, it's just like art.

00;25;48;24 - 00;26;06;24
Mark Cuban
But at, you know, you know, or trading cards, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder with maybe a scarcity factor attached. But right now it's really making a confusing and difficult for people who are just trying to understand it in particular. And even people who have been in it a while and have tried to make money is everything is being replicated.

00;26;06;24 - 00;26;07;26
Mark Cuban
It's being imitated.

00;26;07;26 - 00;26;10;10
Mark Cuban
From chain to chain to chain to chain.

00;26;10;25 - 00;26;12;27
Mark Cuban
And you haven't chains.

00;26;12;27 - 00;26;30;13
Mark Cuban
Imitating other chains just to create chains. Right. And we've evolved out of the TPS thing. We've evolved out of the cost thing. Now that Etherium is is really quieted down in terms of transaction fees and it comes down to, OK, why am I buying this nf t on this particular chain? And the change.

00;26;30;13 - 00;26;34;15
Mark Cuban
No, and here's the underpinning of the problem. The chains know.

00;26;34;18 - 00;26;43;05
Mark Cuban
That there is not room for 100 different blockchains, there is not room for 50 different blockchains. There is.

00;26;43;05 - 00;26;44;12
Mark Cuban
Not room for.

00;26;44;12 - 00;26;53;14
Mark Cuban
20 different horizontal blockchains. Now, if you want to look at vertical applications that are specific to you know, maybe ICP and others that have.

00;26;53;26 - 00;26;55;11
Mark Cuban
Specific ways of doing things.

00;26;55;19 - 00;26;57;16
Mark Cuban
That have applications that are better suited.

00;26;57;16 - 00;26;58;23
Mark Cuban
For those change, OK.

00;26;58;27 - 00;27;02;25
Mark Cuban
Maybe the total number will grow. But because they know that this is.

00;27;03;05 - 00;27;05;16
Mark Cuban
A war for survival.

00;27;05;26 - 00;27;21;12
Mark Cuban
They're trying to replicate what's being done, where they're seeing activities and volume and creating incentives so you know, all of them create rooms, places to meet and sell and marketplaces for Nev Ts and there's just too many and there's just.

00;27;21;12 - 00;27;22;27
Mark Cuban
No, they're all going to succeed.

00;27;23;08 - 00;27;43;03
Cas Piancey
Well, so here's a good follow up question for that, because you're talking about how nets are almost exclusively for collectible kind of, you know, nifty purposes like that. Right. And I think Bennett and I more or less understand that. I think it's we might not love it, but it's it doesn't seem like something that is unreasonable to me.

00;27;43;10 - 00;27;54;12
Cas Piancey
Meanwhile, though, I've heard you also say to look for utility in the NFT space and so. Right. I'm trying to I'm trying to manage to combine those two concepts because if really.

00;27;54;13 - 00;27;58;29
Mark Cuban
You get OK, really, really. Right? Like if there is a Picasso.

00;27;59;25 - 00;28;19;19
Mark Cuban
There's not that Picasso. You know, you're not only conveyed Picasso that Picasso, if you buy it out of one particular gallery and if you get the almost Picasso from another gallery and then another type, you know, another piece of art from another gallery, which with each gallery representing a different blockchain. Right. And so it has to be tied to that.

00;28;20;06 - 00;28;41;08
Mark Cuban
There's a limit in factor in the collectibles market that all these attempts are tied to a particular chain. And that creates a lot of confusion. And people are trying to bridge them, which to me is the worst thing possible because it's no longer non fungible. Right? Because if you bridge yeah. You lock it into one bridge hosted on the second bridge.

00;28;41;14 - 00;28;54;20
Mark Cuban
But if there's any transactions on the second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth bridge that it's been connected to, you lose all that transaction history or it's just such a pain in the ass to browse through it. You lose a lot of the value of, of that. And you still haven't.

00;28;54;20 - 00;28;56;00
Mark Cuban
Addressed the issue of royalties.

00;28;56;00 - 00;29;28;18
Mark Cuban
For the original Creator. All that aside, when it comes to utility and if TI's are just an application for collectibles using smart contracts, and in terms of what other utilities that you can create using smart contracts with NV, TS, you know, with the Mavericks, we created Nifty that what happens if you came to it, if you came to a Mavs game this past season and you were there before the end of the first quarter and you scanned in with your Ticketmaster ticket, right?

00;29;28;18 - 00;29;51;09
Mark Cuban
Digital ticket then we said to your Ticketmaster account where we created Polygon Wallet, we said to you and NFT for that game. Now that NFT is free with your ticket as long as you show up, right? So we're rewarding people who go to the games with the NFT by having that NFT. You now qualify for a lot of different opportunities with the Mavericks.

00;29;51;21 - 00;30;05;00
Mark Cuban
And so like somebody who came to all 41 regular season home games, we just sent them a special signed jersey that we created. They didn't know they were getting that, but that was one way for us to create some utility for those game.

00;30;05;00 - 00;30;07;23
Mark Cuban
So Rewards program. Yeah, it's a rewards program.

00;30;08;00 - 00;30;09;02
Mark Cuban
So and that's a utility.

00;30;09;02 - 00;30;10;02
Mark Cuban
And the rewards program.

00;30;10;12 - 00;30;47;14
Mark Cuban
You know, so they'll be able to get, you know, a pre season games we don't sell as many tickets for and we have empty seats. The people that have the most NFT because they attended the most games or purchased them from other people who did, they'll be able to get free tickets or reduce cost. So that's, that's one basic application we can evolve from there to actually use the NFT as the tickets, which in turn impacts the resale which allows because it's an NFT on a smart contract allows us to earn a royalty or a commission every time it's resold, which we can't get right now when a traditional even digital ticket is resold on

00;30;47;22 - 00;30;48;29
Mark Cuban
outside of Ticketmaster.

00;30;49;08 - 00;30;51;27
Cas Piancey
So that's I was worried this is where you were going to go.

00;30;52;13 - 00;30;52;29
Mark Cuban
Right. I'll give.

00;30;52;29 - 00;30;53;19
Bennett Tomlin
You listeners.

00;30;54;09 - 00;30;54;19
Mark Cuban
But wait.

00;30;55;07 - 00;31;17;09
Bennett Tomlin
So just Cat and I were smiling because we were prepping for this interview yesterday and cats like made me try to come up with the like best justification for NFC tickets. And my answer was like right now Ticketmaster, the other companies take all the secondary sales. And so if you set it up with a royalty that goes back to the original issue or they can get all those secondary sales instead of them going to Ticketmaster.

00;31;17;09 - 00;31;19;20
Bennett Tomlin
So was that as we were laughing when you said that.

00;31;20;08 - 00;31;31;22
Cas Piancey
And we we also were discussing that, that Ticketmaster is essentially monopolistic in its behavior and that that is that in and of itself is kind of a broken system. And so I think where.

00;31;31;22 - 00;31;33;28
Mark Cuban
Are you going to access if you're you've got AEG that.

00;31;33;28 - 00;31;35;17
Mark Cuban
Owns ACCESS, which is a competitor.

00;31;35;17 - 00;31;36;18
Mark Cuban
But I get your point.

00;31;36;23 - 00;31;43;27
Mark Cuban
But wait, there's more, right? Tickets are was one example. I think textbooks, college textbooks are going to be enormous.

00;31;44;05 - 00;31;46;07
Mark Cuban
So imagine why. So you take.

00;31;46;07 - 00;32;02;23
Mark Cuban
A digital well, let's look at the way textbooks are done now, right? Remember when you were in college, you had to buy a book that was ungodly expensive and made no sense. And then you had to make the decision, do you want to buy new or used? You get through the semester and you realize, fuck, I wrote it and I have my doodles.

00;32;02;23 - 00;32;19;27
Mark Cuban
I'm going to try to sell this shit. So now you got to find either go back to the bookstore on campus and get $0.20 on the dollar or $0.50 on the dollar and go and schlep around all that shit and, you know, just say what a rip off, right? Nobody ever dealt with textbooks and didn't say what a rip off.

00;32;20;03 - 00;32;26;16
Mark Cuban
Now back to a better set about the original issue or what tickets. What about the original author and publisher of that textbook?

00;32;26;24 - 00;32;28;08
Mark Cuban
Every time that textbook is.

00;32;28;08 - 00;32;29;23
Mark Cuban
Resold, you know how much they earn.

00;32;31;26 - 00;32;33;22
Mark Cuban
Zero. So now do this.

00;32;34;04 - 00;32;42;26
Mark Cuban
So take take an NFT included it a reader that you know how you can export.

00;32;43;06 - 00;32;44;23
Mark Cuban
A file from an NFT.

00;32;45;02 - 00;32;58;05
Mark Cuban
You can unlock something in an NFT. So with your NFT, you go and you go to textbooks WSJ.com. I'm just grabbing that name out of nowhere and you get your, your, your sociology one.

00;32;58;05 - 00;32;59;07
Mark Cuban
01 textbook.

00;32;59;16 - 00;33;03;14
Mark Cuban
And it cost you $60 instead of 300.

00;33;03;22 - 00;33;04;20
Mark Cuban
Doesn't matter if you were the.

00;33;04;20 - 00;33;06;22
Mark Cuban
First, second, third, 50th or 100th.

00;33;06;22 - 00;33;07;15
Mark Cuban
User of that.

00;33;07;24 - 00;33;22;01
Mark Cuban
And the publisher and author get their 30% or whatever 50% whatever it is relative to textbooks dot com and you just set with it in that NFT a digital reader that has the text of.

00;33;22;01 - 00;33;22;22
Mark Cuban
The textbook.

00;33;23;02 - 00;33;38;12
Mark Cuban
And looks for the NFT to make sure you actually own the NFT and you just indexed tracked it so it's custom the reader is the only thing that can read that file and it checks for the NFT you go through. If you want to print it out, you can find, you know, waste all the paper that's up, kill trees, that's up to you.

00;33;38;23 - 00;33;39;19
Mark Cuban
But if you want.

00;33;39;26 - 00;33;41;06
Mark Cuban
If you want to then you get.

00;33;41;06 - 00;33;41;29
Mark Cuban
To your class.

00;33;42;13 - 00;33;43;11
Mark Cuban
And then you resell it.

00;33;43;25 - 00;33;50;05
Mark Cuban
Cash re sells it, Ben buys it. The 50% royalty goes to the author and a publisher. We're already.

00;33;50;05 - 00;33;51;19
Mark Cuban
Looking into trying to license.

00;33;52;11 - 00;33;59;23
Mark Cuban
Textbooks in the college to be able to do this. So that is a far, far, far better application.

00;34;00;07 - 00;34;00;23
Mark Cuban
Than.

00;34;00;27 - 00;34;02;02
Mark Cuban
The way it's done now.

00;34;02;04 - 00;34;21;10
Cas Piancey
Well, I have two questions about that. So one, I assume that most colleges for the buy now are moving, I would hope are trying to move away from actual physical textbooks. Maybe I'm wrong, but no, you're wrong, OK? I would hope that they would be making that movement at some point when they're forced to and I, I want to.

00;34;21;10 - 00;34;23;22
Mark Cuban
Know because we know if cash.

00;34;23;22 - 00;34;27;18
Mark Cuban
Transfers the file to Bennett, nobody makes any money.

00;34;27;20 - 00;34;50;05
Cas Piancey
Well, can't they? So they can't the way Amazon has done Kindle, they can't they lock this up in some sort of way that you cannot just pass this off. Isn't there a way outside of Nev TS? Plus, my second question about this would be nifty is would like you're saying, promote this idea of the author getting the resale value or like getting some sort of royalty on the resell of this.

00;34;50;05 - 00;35;02;08
Cas Piancey
But the open market, if we're talking about the open market here. And so I assume actually that the prices for these Nev T's would spike every time the semester is starting and then plummet shortly thereafter or.

00;35;02;08 - 00;35;03;11
Mark Cuban
Something like that's fine.

00;35;03;22 - 00;35;11;19
Mark Cuban
Because you're still getting your royalty. Because I talked to a publisher in the lifetime of a book typically is five years and so they price it knowing that.

00;35;11;19 - 00;35;14;23
Mark Cuban
It's going to last five years in any given college.

00;35;14;23 - 00;35;38;02
Mark Cuban
For any given class. So that's why it's so expensive because it's expensive to print them. It's expensive to ship them, it's expensive to deal with them. It's expensive to you know, if there's an update to to kill the books that are no longer valid. Right all those things have and have a specific expense. And in terms of why not just do it without crypto and just do with Amazon, they're terrified of Amazon.

00;35;38;14 - 00;35;57;23
Mark Cuban
They they they don't see you talk about centralized versus decentralized, right? They see Amazon as a threat, not an opportunity. And so by doing it on crypto, where you just have a standard NAFTA, you have a standard reader that is safe enough to protect the tax or they can create their own for that matter. They can use your own custom.

00;35;57;23 - 00;36;17;10
Mark Cuban
It doesn't have to be someone else's. It just has to be extractable. So that can be used with the text. Now all of a sudden, you know, you can buy and sell any numbers and it's cheaper. It's a whole lot cheaper because you don't have to the revenue doesn't have to cover five years. It just has to cover two years.

00;36;17;10 - 00;36;43;02
Mark Cuban
Right. The original sale and because you're getting 50%, maybe three, but the profit margins on that, because there's no physical book like that, are enormous. The marginal cost to deliver one more book is de minimus. And so there's a thousand reasons why using NAFTA for, for textbooks in college and after, you know, are better. And it's the same for a lot of professional books.

00;36;43;11 - 00;37;09;12
Mark Cuban
You know, you're taking the LSATs, yada, yada, yada. So you know, that's the second application where the utility is far greater when you're in a decentralized manner and it's more efficient because if you're using smart standardized part contracts, it's going to be really, really easy to resell without going to any of three, four or five different use book resellers or back to your college I got more.

00;37;11;13 - 00;37;39;25
Bennett Tomlin
That owners just said. It makes sense to me. And and it has a natural feedback mechanism that kind of drives down the cost of textbooks in general. Because if they're getting 100% of the initial sale and say, 50% of all secondary sales, they're incentivized to continue to issue more of the tokens, more of the textbooks, until the initial sale price starts to approach the used price so that they're capturing 100% of that basically instead of 50% of the lesser amount.

00;37;40;04 - 00;37;42;24
Mark Cuban
Yeah, so you can resell it. It's easier to resell.

00;37;42;24 - 00;37;48;03
Mark Cuban
Students are happier. There's more cycling of money at school, you know, because.

00;37;48;08 - 00;37;49;20
Mark Cuban
That money that go that's sunk.

00;37;49;20 - 00;37;57;14
Mark Cuban
Into a $300 textbook that should be $60, that's $240 that could be spent elsewhere or 60 if they bought the used textbook for 120.

00;37;57;14 - 00;37;58;21
Mark Cuban
Dollars. There's just so.

00;37;58;22 - 00;38;13;04
Mark Cuban
Many downstream benefit you know. Another example is I invested in an application called D Climate and it's part of De Arbor. I forget the exact name you can go on Mark Cuban dot com and I get all this shit listed.

00;38;13;24 - 00;38;19;14
Mark Cuban
That I've invested in. And so let's just say I want to buy weather.

00;38;19;14 - 00;38;47;23
Mark Cuban
Insurance for the Mavericks because in Dallas people won't drive in the slop, the snow. And so let's just say for the cold months in the Mavericks schedule, I want protection for up to $1,000,000 for any given game where the temperature is under 25 degrees and the precipitation is over two inches, meaning we have two inches of snow, which for that for us means, you know, 20% or more of potential game attendees are not going to show up.

00;38;48;12 - 00;39;09;17
Mark Cuban
Now it's a it's almost impossible to write that efficiently and quickly. And you talk about centralization like any insurance product, centralization means you got to, you know, get a sales person, get it approved, yada, yada, yada. We're working. So then you set up an audit of Oracle where here are the different options for, you know, here are the different dates here.

00;39;09;18 - 00;39;13;13
Mark Cuban
You know, if you put in this, it's almost like when you use options on stocks or.

00;39;13;20 - 00;39;14;11
Mark Cuban
Or crypto.

00;39;14;11 - 00;39;15;27
Mark Cuban
Right. For this expert.

00;39;15;27 - 00;39;16;14
Mark Cuban
For this.

00;39;16;26 - 00;39;17;22
Mark Cuban
Expiration date.

00;39;18;00 - 00;39;20;28
Mark Cuban
Here's at the money what it costs here is that this premium that premium.

00;39;20;28 - 00;39;22;09
Mark Cuban
This premium here this.

00;39;22;09 - 00;39;23;10
Mark Cuban
Is this is what.

00;39;23;10 - 00;39;27;06
Mark Cuban
You get paid when these these different things happen. Right.

00;39;27;13 - 00;39;31;12
Mark Cuban
These different triggers happen. It's just a note. Now you go to one.

00;39;31;12 - 00;39;36;25
Mark Cuban
Platform, you connect your wallet, you buy your insurance or you will be able to do this. And it's simple.

00;39;37;11 - 00;39;40;23
Cas Piancey
You don't do you able to do that now, if you don't mind my asking.

00;39;41;00 - 00;39;41;28
Mark Cuban
No, you are you.

00;39;41;28 - 00;39;44;14
Mark Cuban
Can it's just a pain in the ass and a lot more expensive.

00;39;44;14 - 00;39;49;16
Cas Piancey
What is what is the what? Why, why? Why is it more expensive now to do this than it is.

00;39;49;25 - 00;39;51;02
Mark Cuban
To find an insurer who's.

00;39;51;02 - 00;39;57;03
Mark Cuban
Willing to do it? And then I've got they've got to get five people, not three people to approve it.

00;39;57;13 - 00;40;00;19
Mark Cuban
It's not that you can't do it. It's just, you know, crypto crypto.

00;40;00;19 - 00;40;21;28
Mark Cuban
It's like it's like defy selling. You can't borrow money or you can't just use your credit card. It's just faster, quicker simpler sometimes just, you know, if you have $1,000 in USD, see to borrow $500 at a variable interest rate, that's probably going to hover around 2.5% and just pay it back when you need to without getting hit with all the incremental charges.

00;40;22;07 - 00;40;27;01
Mark Cuban
It's not that you can't do it elsewhere, it's just easier and quicker.

00;40;27;21 - 00;40;44;08
Bennett Tomlin
So like for the example you gave, they're like buying weather insurance surance for the Mavericks is the insurance product itself like a a DFA product that's using DE climate as the source of truth? Or is it like a regular insurance company who's using that as like the source of.

00;40;44;08 - 00;40;45;08
Mark Cuban
True insurance is just.

00;40;45;29 - 00;41;08;27
Mark Cuban
Insurance is just pull pulling of capital, right. And just risk management at that point in time. So it's algorithmic, if you will, where they're saying here, you know, based off of, you know, 200 years of weather history, here's what we think in, you know, the American Airlines Center, the weather is most likely to be on January seven on the day of the game.

00;41;09;03 - 00;41;36;01
Mark Cuban
And here is the likelihood that you'll have the temperature will be under 25 degrees and two inches of precipitation very very slight you know but they know how to what's the word the insurance they know how to do the math right you know they they can figure it all out and assign the risk and charge a premium and just make that an algorithm that pops up that makes it easier to buy.

00;41;36;03 - 00;41;55;02
Bennett Tomlin
And so I guess my my struggle is so like then for something like this where you're buying the weather surance weather insurance and change through this protocol as soon as the Oracles post that the weather data hit, whatever conditions were specified, then it automatically transfers the funds that were previously escrowed over OK.

00;41;55;02 - 00;41;56;15
Mark Cuban
And you can see the simplification there.

00;41;56;24 - 00;42;03;12
Mark Cuban
Oh, shit. The weather in Dallas is bad this week. I want to cover myself and their algorithms are.

00;42;04;18 - 00;42;04;26
Mark Cuban
What the.

00;42;05;09 - 00;42;35;15
Mark Cuban
Fuck? I'm spacing the word that insurance company you use anyway. But it's there, right? And look, there's there's a simplification that comes with wallet attached transactions. You know, we never really discussed the fact that going to a website connecting your wallet and I'm not saying you take your big investment while people should have multiple wallets. Right. Just like, you know, you have maybe have different credit cards with different limits just to protect yourself when you give one to your kid or cousin or friend or whatever.

00;42;35;24 - 00;43;10;10
Mark Cuban
But the idea of just going to a website connecting your wallet immediately transacting and it's done and you know, preferably on a low gas platform, there's there's that simplification and speed of transaction. There's a lot to be said for that. And I think that's going to have an impact on e-commerce as well because right now, you know, the big simplification is you go and you can use PayPal with your log in and maybe you're already set in your browser or, you know, you or Chrome fills in all the blanks.

00;43;10;10 - 00;43;34;13
Mark Cuban
And we think that's super easy and all we do is put in the CVC code. But damn, you know, if you're not using credit and you know you just connect your wallet, that's faster and easier and that's one of the things we're looking at at different companies where, you know, my e commerce is OK, connect your wallet. I don't have to show all the shit, you know, you know, maybe I want, you know, obviously I to get your name and address to ship you whatever.

00;43;34;27 - 00;43;42;07
Mark Cuban
But if I, if it's just a wallet, connect, pay, transact, yes. Approve sign, you know, sign it through the wallet.

00;43;42;09 - 00;43;45;16
Mark Cuban
Done to me that's a better way to transact.

00;43;45;18 - 00;43;52;14
Bennett Tomlin
Isn't the trade off though that like it's it's more potentially catastrophic because like when you're paying with a credit card you.

00;43;52;14 - 00;43;55;11
Mark Cuban
Can buy your plane. So if I'm going to shop for.

00;43;55;21 - 00;44;01;08
Mark Cuban
You know of a textbook kind of day right. I you know if you only have.

00;44;01;08 - 00;44;03;01
Mark Cuban
One wallet and that's your bank.

00;44;03;01 - 00;44;16;09
Mark Cuban
And everything that's catastrophic. If you're going to go buy a NFT textbook, it's like how much cash do you carry with you when you go out, if and if any anymore? Right. You're not going to carry everything. You've got your bank account.

00;44;16;17 - 00;44;17;21
Mark Cuban
You're if you have half.

00;44;17;21 - 00;44;31;17
Mark Cuban
A brain at all, you're separating and segregating and so, you know, OK, this is my shopping wallet. Now, if I'm going shopping and I'm not going to spend more than $100, I'll just use USD and transfer it to my shopping wallet and when I'm done with it, I transfer back.

00;44;32;02 - 00;44;43;03
Cas Piancey
But I think what what the point that Bennett is trying to make right now is about reversibility. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Bennett is is touching on the idea that with your credit card or your bank, you can reverse these transactions if it goes astray.

00;44;43;03 - 00;44;49;01
Mark Cuban
Friends can't get cash. Right. Well, and it's true. And if I'm buying something from Bennett.

00;44;49;06 - 00;45;08;09
Mark Cuban
And Bennett fucked me, well, then I've got lots of ways to respond to that. Or if it's just a, you know, an honest mistake, the Ben is probably going to return the funds. You know, I'm not saying buy go this. They go on the dark web and and buy, you know, whatever it is you shouldn't be buying. I'm saying this is, you know, a normal transaction.

00;45;08;17 - 00;45;15;22
Mark Cuban
So imagine it's Amazon and it's just cheaper if it just comes out of your Polygon wallet and that's it.

00;45;16;16 - 00;45;44;09
Cas Piancey
Don't you think that this is so much different than the original intention of like Bitcoin, for instance? Like what you're talking about doing is having these wallets that essentially I mean, to me it sounds like in a lot of ways could very well dox you like it would be used for rewards points. You'd be giving people your address, your name, you'd be logging this wallet in and connecting it to a bunch of who knows sites like it seems like this is very, very far from the idea of like private money.

00;45;44;27 - 00;45;53;01
Mark Cuban
First of all, I don't care about that shit. I care about, you know, there's a lot of things that after inception, you know.

00;45;53;01 - 00;46;20;28
Mark Cuban
When we started it started audio net, which was the very first streaming business and in 1995, early 95 we thought that our first source of revenue was going to be kind of being muzak for e-commerce sites because that would help you buy more or you'd have a voice. The guy talking about the product. Nobody wanted to pay us to do that, but they wanted to hear the Cubs games and they wanted to hear this or that in the office because we were the only place that you could listen to anything you know, because you probably didn't have a radio or TV in your desk.

00;46;21;06 - 00;46;41;21
Mark Cuban
And so what you initially think is going to happen in any business, I'm sure when you guys started cryptos, crypto critics corner a lot of things went in a lot of different directions than what you initially expected. That's just the nature of business, and that's being an entrepreneur and that's being opportunistic, that's being innovative, you take things in a different direction than people expected them to.

00;46;42;26 - 00;46;43;10
Mark Cuban
Yeah, all the.

00;46;43;10 - 00;46;47;09
Mark Cuban
Bitcoin back to shit. Oh yeah. You know.

00;46;47;23 - 00;46;49;12
Mark Cuban
It's like, you know, hey, you're.

00;46;49;12 - 00;46;53;05
Mark Cuban
An inflation hit. Not in the United States. You're not.

00;46;53;08 - 00;46;54;12
Mark Cuban
Maybe in Venezuela.

00;46;54;13 - 00;46;55;22
Mark Cuban
As a great inflation hedge.

00;46;56;00 - 00;46;57;24
Mark Cuban
But not in a nation.

00;46;57;27 - 00;46;59;02
Mark Cuban
With a reserve currency.

00;46;59;09 - 00;47;00;09
Mark Cuban
You're just not.

00;47;01;29 - 00;47;13;13
Bennett Tomlin
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's one of those narratives for Bitcoin that's been around for years. And every so often they check the data to see if it's gotten any better. Like when you overlay inflation against Bitcoin price. And so far it hasn't.

00;47;14;08 - 00;47;28;05
Mark Cuban
So far it is not an inflation, but in high in countries where there's super inflation, right? It is a hit and so is the US dollar. And so with any, you know, remotely stable.

00;47;28;28 - 00;47;30;05
Mark Cuban
Asset, but gold.

00;47;31;07 - 00;47;31;23
Mark Cuban
Goes with.

00;47;31;23 - 00;47;35;22
Mark Cuban
Saying it's a hedge to inflation for millennia and it's.

00;47;35;22 - 00;47;36;11
Mark Cuban
Still not.

00;47;36;22 - 00;47;37;20
Mark Cuban
And you know.

00;47;38;07 - 00;47;44;06
Mark Cuban
Commercial selling that that's what they think it is and it's not you know, it goes back to stable coin.

00;47;44;07 - 00;47;46;22
Mark Cuban
Versus not having the word stable. There's things that.

00;47;46;22 - 00;47;50;01
Mark Cuban
Just people repeated enough. They think it's true. You know, that's.

00;47;50;03 - 00;47;55;08
Mark Cuban
That's why companies buy marketing, you know, because they hope that if you say it enough, everybody's going to believe it.

00;47;56;00 - 00;48;02;27
Cas Piancey
Yeah. I we have we have one last question or at least I have one last question for you.

00;48;03;17 - 00;48;05;14
Mark Cuban
Before we talk Bitcoin. Yeah.

00;48;05;14 - 00;48;06;14
Mark Cuban
I wanted, you know.

00;48;06;26 - 00;48;08;05
Mark Cuban
Crypto critics let me know.

00;48;09;02 - 00;48;11;27
Cas Piancey
We're we're doing our best, Mark. We're doing our best.

00;48;13;11 - 00;48;14;12
Mark Cuban
Make why.

00;48;15;12 - 00;48;36;02
Cas Piancey
Well, this this question actually doesn't necessarily relate to, although I think it does in some sense because venture capital has really started to dove deep into cryptocurrencies, I think as of late. And we recently heard about Block Fei. I think they there they got devalued, right? It went from a $3 billion valuation to a $1 billion valuation.

00;48;36;02 - 00;48;36;17
Bennett Tomlin
52.

00;48;36;18 - 00;48;38;15
Cas Piancey
I'm wondering if we're what was it.

00;48;38;24 - 00;48;42;06
Bennett Tomlin
Five to one. They were raising it 50 a few months ago.

00;48;42;06 - 00;48;54;09
Cas Piancey
Thank you. OK, five to one. Do you think there's a distortion right now in private markets via venture capital or do you think it's it's just simply as murky and messed up as any other? Right.

00;48;55;09 - 00;49;17;25
Mark Cuban
Well, first of all, the question should be, is there ever a time when VCs don't distort capital markets? And the answer is no. And the more money VCs have and the more money that's out there, then the more distortion happens. I mean, look, on Shark Tank, the companies are invested. I just have to bang on them. You know, you go for profitability, you don't go for your next race.

00;49;17;29 - 00;49;40;16
Mark Cuban
You know, you've got to be profitable to survive. You can't just you know, I have one company I'm trying to bang on them right now. No, you can't just buy sales by and sales will die at some point. It's like there was a company that came on Shark Tank Ring and they were like, Don't you feel bad that you'd invest in Ring a Shark Tank at a $7 million valuation when they sold for a billion?

00;49;40;16 - 00;50;10;06
Mark Cuban
I'm like, No, I don't feel bad at all. Because they had to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to do tens of millions in revenue. And I would have been deluded until, you know, the next, you know, evolution started all over again. It was there was just no chance. And so it's the same now when, you know, QE basically is UBI for rich people, you know, and when Cuban QE is happening, quantitative easing is in where appreciable assets skyrocket.

00;50;10;06 - 00;50;33;08
Mark Cuban
And particularly, you know, it's been over an extended period of time. That money's got to go somewhere and people tend to take on more risk and be willing to try more things. So they give their money to VCs and VCs go have to go big or go home because if you don't overperform outperform, that money's going to come right out and you're going to be embarrassed, you know?

00;50;33;08 - 00;50;57;01
Mark Cuban
And now we've seen what's happened with ARC and we've seen what's happening with Tiger, where they've just gotten destroyed. But you never see Warren Buffett get destroyed like that. His portfolio may go down because he just looks at it completely different way. And I tend to look at it more that way. And like right now in terms of my investment philosophy, you know, I don't want it all to go rushing back up.

00;50;57;10 - 00;51;20;02
Mark Cuban
I know a lot of people do and I feel I feel horrible. People will hate me for saying that. And it's the same thing with stocks because stocks have collapsed more than crypto has, particularly the primary crypto. You know, there's, you know, Netflix and Amazon and you name it have gotten destroyed. You know, some enormous percentage of the Nasdaq tech stocks in the Nasdaq are down 50, 60, 70, 80%.

00;51;20;17 - 00;51;44;24
Mark Cuban
And so, you know, I'm of the Warren Buffett School where you wait for blood in the street. And, you know, I sold a bunch of stuff and you know did try to catch a falling knife. And you know if I think it goes down to below a certain point where it's crazy not to buy like I did in 2008 like I did you know other times I'll buy, you know 20th March 2020 when everything was cratering I was buying.

00;51;45;05 - 00;51;51;22
Mark Cuban
And so that's that's the way I look at it. But I do want to fuck with Bitcoin don't come on, come on, come on.

00;51;53;13 - 00;52;16;18
Bennett Tomlin
I mean, we've said all these things about Bitcoin before on the show that it's not actually an inflation hedge, that the volatility has not gone down over time, that it has not gotten cheaper to use, that it's still very challenging for like a basic user to get set up with a wallet and stuff for bitcoin and like that Bitcoiners are not particularly passionate about making the experience easy.

00;52;16;27 - 00;52;19;09
Bennett Tomlin
They kind of like what about exchange network?

00;52;19;16 - 00;52;26;29
Mark Cuban
But what about lightning and strike? You know, I look, I don't I'm actually more positive on Bitcoin.

00;52;26;29 - 00;52;29;15
Mark Cuban
Than probably most people. You know, there's a lot.

00;52;29;15 - 00;52;30;09
Mark Cuban
Of arguments to be.

00;52;30;09 - 00;52;32;00
Mark Cuban
Made about how it's not, you know.

00;52;32;07 - 00;52;34;00
Mark Cuban
Decentralized and this and that.

00;52;34;09 - 00;52;39;20
Mark Cuban
But, you know, I think it's a better store of value than gold and when people.

00;52;39;20 - 00;52;40;20
Cas Piancey
Just not saying much.

00;52;41;17 - 00;52;44;05
Mark Cuban
It's not the same type. People have to put the money somewhere.

00;52;44;11 - 00;52;44;21
Cas Piancey
Sure.

00;52;45;01 - 00;52;46;21
Mark Cuban
And if you look across the.

00;52;46;21 - 00;53;04;02
Mark Cuban
Spectrum of assets and whether you have $100 to invest or 100 million to invest, you know, when you look across the spectrum, it's difficult for people just to put the money in the bank. And there's risk other than treasuries, which are paying, what, 2.9% where you lock up your money for ten years. You know.

00;53;04;25 - 00;53;06;29
Mark Cuban
That's not really attractive either.

00;53;07;05 - 00;53;07;28
Mark Cuban
So people are going.

00;53;07;28 - 00;53;08;26
Mark Cuban
To make choices of.

00;53;08;26 - 00;53;33;12
Mark Cuban
Where to put their money. And the question becomes what and when? And right now, I don't think it's weird, but I do think Bitcoin is usurping gold as a destination, as a store of value because, you know, people talk about, well, there's no utility on Bitcoin and you know, I'm can argue a whole lot of that. There's a little bit of utility not great.

00;53;34;02 - 00;53;35;17
Mark Cuban
But if you look at gold.

00;53;36;04 - 00;53;38;18
Mark Cuban
It's not like people need jewelry right?

00;53;38;25 - 00;53;40;09
Mark Cuban
It's not like that's a need.

00;53;40;09 - 00;53;41;23
Mark Cuban
Right? That's that's just.

00;53;41;23 - 00;53;42;12
Mark Cuban
Vanity.

00;53;42;21 - 00;53;51;21
Mark Cuban
And so, you know, there's they're equivalent in my mind. So I think Bitcoin from a pricing perspective I think will hold a lot better than people expect.

00;53;51;22 - 00;54;09;15
Cas Piancey
Here's a question. If we want to try to go a little bit more in the cryptocurrency direction, I have a question for you because I think Bennett and I talk a lot about the scams and the frauds and the and the big, big overarching problems that we see with the industry. So stable coins, things that present systemic risk in our eyes.

00;54;09;22 - 00;54;22;12
Cas Piancey
And I'm wondering if you think about those kind of black swan events regularly, if this is something you you think about is like when you're trying to consider risk, you know, your risk assessment in this space.

00;54;22;21 - 00;54;24;14
Mark Cuban
Right? So when you look at Bitcoin, it's just the.

00;54;24;14 - 00;54;32;20
Mark Cuban
Things I've said, it's a store value and I think it's better than gold because it's more transferable easier because look, it's not like people actually hold bars of gold.

00;54;33;14 - 00;54;34;15
Mark Cuban
Gold, you know, the.

00;54;34;15 - 00;55;01;10
Mark Cuban
Buying and selling of gold is all digital transactions and so and it's all fractionalized and virtualized. So they're 61 half dozen the other. And so I think there's always going to be a market for simple store values other than cash, because people are willing to do your homes because people want to take on some risk to try to get some appreciation because that's the only way you're going to get wealthy if you're just, you know, if you're working every single day and trying to save money for retirement.

00;55;01;18 - 00;55;02;08
Mark Cuban
It's hard at.

00;55;02;08 - 00;55;06;04
Mark Cuban
2.9% for ten years. And so your gut does that.

00;55;06;04 - 00;55;29;03
Cas Piancey
Therefore, is that your assessment? That's your risk assessment is like, well, I care I care more about the idea of like inflation trying to find a place to put my money. In the meantime, as opposed to like, well, if Teather blows up and USD blows up and the all the algorithmic stable coins blow up and the whole market goes down, 75%, you're like, that's not a top concern for me.

00;55;29;03 - 00;55;29;13
Cas Piancey
Well.

00;55;29;27 - 00;55;30;08
Mark Cuban
You know.

00;55;30;10 - 00;55;53;24
Mark Cuban
First, if you SDC is transparent like they say they are now, if there's fraud, like what Tara that was meant to blow up the day it started. Right I got you know the only thing I'm mad about the terror is that I didn't shorted you know I got the opportunity to invest in anchor and I said no because you can't keep on paying 20% with no source of income.

00;55;54;03 - 00;56;13;10
Mark Cuban
But at the same time if you think about it think about what I just said about ring and how people are investing hundreds of millions to do tens of millions in revenue. It's the exact same thing. Either you subsidize sales of a product which we've seen with VCs in Silicon Valley time and time again, right? We're raising all this money.

00;56;13;10 - 00;56;32;07
Mark Cuban
Da da da da da. And we're you know, we'll make it up in volume. That's just what's happened with crypto. People put up money and they subsidize it with rewards and they're buying the rewards back from their customers, hoping they create enough transactions. Right. And they make it up. So More Anchor wanted to do it through loans and they couldn't do it right.

00;56;32;07 - 00;56;39;10
Mark Cuban
So that was ripe for failure. US DC is not trying to do those things that I can see. I mean, are you guys seeing anything untoward about USD?

00;56;39;10 - 00;56;45;16
Cas Piancey
See, I'm wondering why they want to go public. I'm wondering, my circle is so desperate to go public. I'm wondering, does it.

00;56;45;16 - 00;56;46;19
Mark Cuban
Make sense from from.

00;56;46;19 - 00;56;53;22
Mark Cuban
Their perspective? You'll get a multiple of whatever earnings you have based off the scale from the public market that you don't get from crypto.

00;56;54;06 - 00;57;18;04
Cas Piancey
But then the fear becomes something, I think. I guess this was part of the question about the venture capital as well. I think the public perception and feel free to correct this perception, please, but I think the public perception is you do around, you do around B, you do around C, D, E, whatever, and then you go public and you dump on retail and and that I don't know if there's truth to that or not, but ultimately you look at something like Coinbase and you go, oh, wow.

00;57;18;04 - 00;57;35;25
Cas Piancey
So that went up to like 400 and it's trading at $69 right now. Like it's seems pretty. And they did a direct to direct listing as well where they got to they, they had to dump their shares. So I think that that's the concept I'm kind of referring to is that it feels like everybody's.

00;57;35;25 - 00;57;36;27
Mark Cuban
But that's the way the whole public.

00;57;36;27 - 00;57;41;24
Mark Cuban
Market works right unless you're the entrepreneur that created the company and just took it public so.

00;57;41;24 - 00;57;43;22
Mark Cuban
That it's not just retail.

00;57;43;22 - 00;58;22;01
Mark Cuban
Investors, there aren't enough retail investors who are buying to sup to support the entire public market. They just aren't right. And when they go away, markets decline. And you can see that reflected in Robinhood, right, where you see the volume just dry up at Robinhood and the challenges that they've had but at the same time, I don't necessarily think that's a reflection for USG C or any crypto company going public because you, you know, assuming the CDC can somewhat do their job, you've got to file all your reports and you've got to be, you know, have some level of transparency and you've got to be able to demonstrate that what you know, if, if us

00;58;22;01 - 00;58;40;08
Mark Cuban
to see goes public and they're not doing what they're saying they're doing, they're going to jail. Right? So USD see going public is a positive for the crypto industry and I think it returns their investors, you're right there. But it also allows them to earn a multiple of their earnings, which you can't do as a private.

00;58;40;08 - 00;58;42;24
Mark Cuban
Company and liquidate that comes with it.

00;58;43;01 - 00;58;43;23
Mark Cuban
So if they want to.

00;58;43;23 - 00;58;44;24
Mark Cuban
Go out and buy tether.

00;58;44;24 - 00;59;05;11
Mark Cuban
And then all of a sudden and bring in there, they're under their umbrella where you know, that's another however much is left until they're $62 billion and they want to say OK, we're going to take you, we're going to change it. So you know it's it's dollar for dollar in treasuries and USD real U.S. dollars. OK there's something to be said for that too.

00;59;05;17 - 00;59;23;15
Mark Cuban
But yeah, I don't look at going public as being a problem that or it's a reflection of the fact that they're dumping on individual investors because they're just you know, companies have trillion dollar market caps now. There's just not enough buyers to to retail buyers to support that.

00;59;24;08 - 00;59;26;15
Mark Cuban
But let me let me just finish to answer your question.

00;59;26;15 - 00;59;44;24
Mark Cuban
So when I look so Bitcoin, I look at the store value and the maxis for the most part, I will just hold on because their cost, you know, they probably already sold what they need to sell and they don't want to pay taxes on any more. And so you know, they're probably going to hold on. And the data from wallets supports that, right?

00;59;45;06 - 01;00;09;00
Mark Cuban
The longer people hold, the longer they hold. Right. They do Hoddle and Etherium you know, the concern there and I own a lot of Etherium is more on the utility, right? So what drives me in and out and I'm waiting more on the sidelines. I've sold a bunch. My Etherium, fortunately, is looking to see the applications that drive transaction usage, you know, because it was defined.

01;00;09;00 - 01;00;38;27
Mark Cuban
It was NAFTA and that was driving a ton of transactions. And now that defi is no longer being subsidized. You're seeing, you know, 2%, 3% and where you're you're seeing ten, 15, 20% or more aprt. It's for yield, rather, it's because somebody's subsidizing in their coin right. And they're doing it to orders down where instead of just writing you a check or sending you money, they're just saying, OK, we're going to give you our token.

01;00;38;28 - 01;00;56;02
Mark Cuban
We want you to hold it and we'll create some inflation. And we're hoping that there's somebody there to buy it at some point in time, that that's just that's a recipe for failure, you know, so when I see some of these chains that are just offering tokens, they better have raised a whole lot of money. Otherwise they're going to fail.

01;00;56;13 - 01;01;20;19
Mark Cuban
But on the flip side, you've got and it's on a theory and you've got other DFI and you've got other applications that are working that can generate transactions. So then it just becomes what new applications will generate transactions. And that's what I look for DFI and if are no longer enough for it to for it to just say, OK, this makes it a no brainer.

01;01;20;25 - 01;01;43;13
Mark Cuban
We have to see the follow on transactions. And that's why I've said we're in a lull period just like we were on the Internet where after e-commerce and search engines and some basic stuff it took some time for and some technology advancements for the Internet really to start getting some really advanced applications where people said, OK, I have to use it, you know, in the mobile, took it to a next level, et cetera, et cetera.

01;01;43;22 - 01;01;45;16
Mark Cuban
And that's what we need in crypto. We need those.

01;01;45;16 - 01;01;46;07
Mark Cuban
Applications.

01;01;47;15 - 01;02;10;21
Bennett Tomlin
My my last question, I think is a few months ago when you were talking at the at Wharton's blockchain accelerator, you mentioned that you were recommending that your portfolio companies take a portion of the cash they raise, put it into USD and lend it out to start earning the yield. Is that still a recommendation you would make or has the rising risk free rate and collapsing DFA yields made that less appealing.

01;02;11;13 - 01;02;12;25
Cas Piancey
When regulatory concerns?

01;02;12;28 - 01;02;15;19
Mark Cuban
Yeah, the regulatory concerns, no. But the fall.

01;02;15;19 - 01;02;35;13
Mark Cuban
In DFI rates, yes. But you know, there are still places where you know, you know how with stocks you can loan them out and you get paid a big for stock loan, right? So if I own 100 shares or something I can go to my broker and they have a stock loan department and the people who want to short it will borrow it and you have to pay in order to borrow it.

01;02;35;13 - 01;02;47;13
Mark Cuban
Right. Well, the same thing happens in crypto the exact same thing with tokens, you know. So if I own ADA and somebody and I don't and somebody in want, but if somebody wants to buy.

01;02;47;13 - 01;02;49;24
Mark Cuban
It, what's the short it, you know, they're going to have to.

01;02;49;24 - 01;02;50;04
Mark Cuban
Pay to.

01;02;50;04 - 01;02;51;12
Mark Cuban
Borrow it from somebody.

01;02;51;12 - 01;02;53;15
Mark Cuban
Who owns it. And so.

01;02;53;27 - 01;02;55;09
Mark Cuban
The same thing happens with USD.

01;02;55;10 - 01;03;03;20
Mark Cuban
See, the same thing happens with tether and so I think USD CE in particular is stable. So where, you know, for myself personally, even.

01;03;04;11 - 01;03;04;19
Mark Cuban
In.

01;03;04;19 - 01;03;05;24
Mark Cuban
Companies, it's like.

01;03;05;24 - 01;03;06;29
Mark Cuban
OK, if you guys can.

01;03;07;12 - 01;03;27;11
Mark Cuban
Integrate and do this easily in your cash management, put some of it in crypto automatically loan it out and you know, if it's on of a it may only be 2% but if it's through a set, see a centralized exchange, you might be able to get six, seven, 8%. And at that point in time it's worth it. And I've said this.

01;03;27;11 - 01;03;29;01
Mark Cuban
And I'm trying to find somebody.

01;03;29;01 - 01;03;42;28
Mark Cuban
To do it the right way, integrating QuickBooks into, you know, a cash management system that that simplifies all that so that, you know, you sell your USD, see when you need to pay your payroll.

01;03;43;03 - 01;03;45;02
Mark Cuban
And you buy it when the revenues come in or.

01;03;45;02 - 01;03;58;11
Mark Cuban
Your receivables come in and you're making that, you know, four or five, six, 8%, that can be real money depending on the size of the company. But it's also found money that you're not making right now. And to me, there is utility there as well.

01;03;59;01 - 01;04;01;16
Bennett Tomlin
Makes sense. Cast, do you got any other questions?

01;04;02;01 - 01;04;07;18
Cas Piancey
No, I unfortunately, I don't. So yeah. No, no. Checkmate. Ing you, Mark. Sorry.

01;04;09;11 - 01;04;12;25
Mark Cuban
Where is the credit? No credit. We tried.

01;04;14;07 - 01;04;28;18
Cas Piancey
We tried. I don't know. I think I mean, I think we're trying. You know, it's better for us to to ask these questions and hear honest answers from whoever we're speaking to and let the audience decide how they feel about it. I think it's kind of kind of.

01;04;29;11 - 01;04;32;29
Mark Cuban
I do. Yeah. I mean, we'll look at the social media.

01;04;32;29 - 01;04;33;26
Mark Cuban
And half the people think I'm.

01;04;33;26 - 01;04;38;29
Mark Cuban
A moron, and half the people think most of being a moron and maybe part of what I know.

01;04;39;00 - 01;04;51;19
Cas Piancey
No, I mean, I think you gave some really sound arguments, unfortunately. So yeah. We appreciate you coming on so much, though, Mark. Thank you for thank you for joining us. Really.

01;04;52;29 - 01;04;54;07
Mark Cuban
Hey, I love cynic, man.

01;04;54;07 - 01;04;55;24
Mark Cuban
I love people who question everything.

01;04;55;24 - 01;05;02;03
Mark Cuban
The only way people get better and industries and businesses get better is by questioning authority.

01;05;02;03 - 01;05;03;29
Mark Cuban
Right? You have to. You have to. You have.

01;05;03;29 - 01;05;05;11
Mark Cuban
To. And let me put in one.

01;05;05;11 - 01;05;29;05
Mark Cuban
Quick plug our plug lazy dot com. Do you want to you want to highlight your your adept you use lazy dot com but I created a company called cost plus drugs dot com and what cost plus drugs does is completely disrupt the whole drug industry. So if you have any prescriptions at all for any medications go to cost plus drugstore.com if we have it all of our medications are priced at.

01;05;29;13 - 01;05;31;23
Mark Cuban
Our cost plus 15% plus.

01;05;31;23 - 01;06;01;24
Mark Cuban
$3 handling fee plus $5 shipping period end of story and we're probably less expensive than your insurance co-pay and if you don't have insurance we're definitely less expensive than anything you're spending you know, we're approaching a million customers and we've only launched in January so go to cost plus Drugstore.com, look up your prescriptions and even if we don't have them sign up for an account because you'll put in the prescriptions that you take, the medications you take, and when we add them, we're always adding new drugs.

01;06;02;02 - 01;06;05;26
Mark Cuban
We'll alert you on it. So thanks for let me do my little pitch for go to cost plus drug.

01;06;06;13 - 01;06;10;20
Bennett Tomlin
And again, thank you so much for joining us today. That was it was a great company.

01;06;11;14 - 01;06;12;09
Mark Cuban
I enjoyed it too.

01;06;12;18 - 01;06;51;02
Cas Piancey
Thanks hey. Since Mark Cuban was allowed to do his pitch, apparently Betty has informed me that my role has shifted from CFO, co-founder and co-host to now being chief ad reader. It seems like a downgrade. Fine with it. I guess I'll read the copy here, huh? As Chief Ad Reader, I'd like to say that we have 1 trillion subscribers on YouTube OK, Ben is a data scientist, so I apologize.

01;06;51;02 - 01;07;19;19
Cas Piancey
There's obviously not a trillion people in the world or that many people on YouTube, obviously. And continue. And we have 15 trillion subscribers across various podcasting platforms, whatever. If you hit the like or subscribe button and leave a review, we promise to buy CAS a dog house to sleep in. OK, cool. Well, hey, hit like subscribe YouTube. I don't know.

01;07;19;19 - 01;07;20;17
Cas Piancey
That's what.

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